Old 01-16-2011, 09:01 PM   #286
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
I’m sure Choobus stops saying “fuck” ,“cunt” and “poos” around some people
eat shit you fucking cunt

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Old 01-17-2011, 01:42 AM   #287
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
If I was given respect when I came here I would have reciprocated, but I wasn’t so here we are.
In your very first post here as Jerry74, you called atheists arrogant. Gee, I wonder why people here thought you were an asshole, right off the bat.

You are about as good a liar as you are a debater.

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Old 01-17-2011, 01:45 AM   #288
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What makes me a better human than many here is I'm not initially a cunt, I can easily be a cunt, but I'm not one by default.
I beg to differ. You started out here as a pretentious cunt who thought of himself as above all the silly theists and atheists arguing about religion, and you haven't shown the ability to not be one yet.

By the way, are leprechauns a valid alternative, Jerry?

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:53 AM   #289
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Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:00 AM   #290
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Assuming all that is, is obseravble by science. All that can ever be, and is, must be able to understood by humanity otherwise it doesn't exist
I absolutely do not assume that. I understand that there is an immensity of things that humanity does not, and may never be able to, observe or understand.

But we keep coming back to the same old question, since there is a lack of evidence that a god exists, what should be my justification to believe one does?

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Who told you to think these were both correct? I realise you require hard evidence to prove otherwise, but you have to apply a set of beliefs to consider this to be true. Or on what grounds do you discount the possilbity that everything that exists is not observable?
I don't believe this to be true.

Yes, I require evidence and reasoned argument to support what I believe. But I also don't discount the existence of things for which such evidence is lacking, I just don't believe them. Why should I?


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You can be a complete condescending arsehole to anyone who disgarees wth your perspective but then state "Hey I never said I know". So why be a cunt in the first place?
I don't think I am an arsehole. You came to an atheist forum and chose to start a thread loaded with misconceptions. I just commented on them.


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Your belief requires a view of that all that is, is observable. How are you sceptical of this?
I don't believe this. So, there is no need for me to be skeptical.


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No because your belief assumes that all evidence is obtainable and observable.
Not to sound redundant, but no, that's not my belief at all.

My position is that I understand that there is most likely an incredible amount of evidence that is not obtainable or observable. That's why I'm agnostic. But, without such evidence, I have no reason to believe. That's why I'm an atheist.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:53 PM   #291
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Where do you live? I need to move there.
New Zealand. The land is stunning, yet the people are dull.
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The atheists you know appear to live in an area where there are many atheists.

Most of the atheists that come here live in areas with few or no other atheists. We may be more fervent than the atheists you know because of the daily idiocy we have to deal with, and we come to this forum for refuge.

Why is that a problem?
The problem is the imposition of this belief imposes itself on me in day to day life, much like you perceive that Theism imposes on you. It hit the point of no return when a turd like Richard Dawkins is seen as a superstar, as if atheism required additonal reasons to be discussed. In NZ atheism is the norm, and those who are religious are viewed as nuts. I think it's gone too far the other way here and completely disrepects different beliefs.

I think all beliefs stem from a mix of nature and experience. I don't believe that those who are atheists are as a result of logic, which many here state. Anyone can find any reason to jusitfy whatever they choose to 'believe'.

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That's not at all true, and it makes me think you don't really understand the view or principles. Not because I'm being condescending, but because there is great overlap between atheism and agnosticism.

Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know. Atheists can be agnostic, and agnostics can be atheists.

I, personally, am both. I admit that I don't know if there is anything beyond the universe (hence I am agnostic), and I also don't believe that there is anything beyond the universe (hence I am atheistic). The two are absolutely not mutally exclusive, so often the twain shall meet.
I don’t agree that there is overlap between our views at all. The simialrtiy is we both consider ourselves to know that we are agnostic, but the application of our beliefs fundamentally over-rides the application of what we know. I believe I don't know (and as such hold no belief or disbelief towards a "NMM"), while you believe in your disbelief of a "NMM". There may be overlap between atheists who are agnostic and agnostics who are atheists, but this holds no relevance to my agnosticism as I'm not an atheist. So in this context, never the twain shall meet.
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Then why in the world would you come to a forum populated not only by atheists, but by Raving Atheists? It's not like you didn't know what you'd find here.
It’s cathartic. The mainstream of thought in NZ ridicules religion and theism, and enjoys portraying many misconceptions around the religious. Granted, some are fundamnetal who disregard science, but many theists accept science. Lumping all theists as one is just lazy. I think the rise of atheism is the fallout over the control theism historically had, and in some places still has. I don't consider this as a relevant when justifying atheism. I just see it as reactive backlash.

[quote]
[quote=selliedjoup]I’m not a newcomer...
Quote:
I thought you were, since your username was created on 28 Nov 2010, and you've only got 76 posts.

If you were here previously under a different name, I was unaware of that.


As long as you know exactly what to expect and what you want from your time here, I guess you'll get what you want out of the experience.
One of the reasons I come here is for conflict. I hold no hope of convincing anyone of anything and you won't be able to convince me either. That said, I enjoy discussing views as well.

I know what to expect or I wouldn't come here. I can get different things from different people. I'm enjoying our discussion as it allows me to understand your position, of course they doesn't mean I accept it, and I'm would assume you feel the same.

Choobus would have had a post much like "fuck you you fucking cunt, I know phsyics, therefore I'm right" kind of post.

Ghoul would make an analogy about excrement and leprechauns.

It all adds to the mix.

NKB would just sit back on his Jabba the Hut chair and grow steadily larger.

And Irreligious would despair at my lack of inhumanity.

Each constitutes a different form of experience, which I find amusing in different ways.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:57 PM   #292
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Don't be such a liar. Your behavior here is not deserving of any respect because you've never shown respect to the other members of this forum. Not once. And I'm not merely insulting you by calling you an ugly and contentious personality. That is my honest assessment based on how you have been conducting yourself here. Something is clearly wrong with you.
I’m not lying. You can view it otherwise but that doesn’t make it so. Re-read my first posts using the jerry74 account and see who you identify as first showing any disrespect. If you still think it was me, you can get fucked.


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You keep saying your're not here to make friends. Fine. Then fuck off already instead of being a contentious twit for the sheer hell of it. You don't like us and we don't like you. What more is there for you to do here but to keep repeating the same tired bullshit that doesn't seem to make sense to anybody here but you? Go spend time with your wife and kids already. Nobody here likes your company.
That makes no sense whatsoever. If I said I was not here to make friends, why would I fuck off? Just ignore me and I’ll disappear. The thing is due to the combative nature of this place I won’t be ignored.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:01 PM   #293
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In your very first post here as Jerry74, you called atheists arrogant. Gee, I wonder why people here thought you were an asshole, right off the bat.

You are about as good a liar as you are a debater.
Either you have trouble with comprehension or you’re admitting you’re convinced of how correct you are with knowing that nothing beyond ehat we can or currently know exists. Supposedly you claim not to know, but it depends which topic you’re referencing, when you choose to apply this statement.

I now know that the regulars here are arrogant, but at the time I made this statement, I had no view on whether this could be applied to the regulars here when I made that statement. I said “I think it's quite arrogant for people to be convinced either way”. If this is your round about way of admitting that you are convinced of you knowing you're right, it's an odd way of doing so.

Your debating skills consist of repeating the same question. This question is one someone else devised so you're merely parrotting it and I've already answered it. Debating? I think not.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #294
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I beg to differ. You started out here as a pretentious cunt who thought of himself as above all the silly theists and atheists arguing about religion, and you haven't shown the ability to not be one yet.

By the way, are leprechauns a valid alternative, Jerry?

And you began as a arrogant cunt, who will no doubt continue along this path, irrespective of what you know. I hold no expectation for you to be otherwise.

Good to see you're still asking the same question. Does this question form the basis for your atheism?
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:06 PM   #295
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I absolutely do not assume that. I understand that there is an immensity of things that humanity does not, and may never be able to, observe or understand.
So you admit the logical construct you apply to your belief set will only result in atheism?

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But we keep coming back to the same old question, since there is a lack of evidence that a god exists, what should be my justification to believe one does?
Existence requires an uncaused cause based on the causality we understand. There is no valid alternative. The uncertainty principle only proves that once existence is, uncaused causes occur.

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I don't believe this to be true.

Yes, I require evidence and reasoned argument to support what I believe. But I also don't discount the existence of things for which such evidence is lacking, I just don't believe them. Why should I?
Because if you do so, you're applying the principle that humanity can observe all that is, whether you believe it to be the true or not. If you don't believe it to be true, why apply the premise that evidence is required?


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I don't think I am an arsehole. You came to an atheist forum and chose to start a thread loaded with misconceptions. I just commented on them.
Fair enough. I don’t think anyone thinks they’re an arsehole. They’re only misconceptions from your perspective as you’ve applied them to your belief structure, I’ve applied a different set and think your beliefs are incorrect, which of course, you view as a misconception.




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I don't believe this. So, there is no need for me to be skeptical.
How do you reconcile a belief of all that is, is unobservable and that you believe you require evidence to prove things which are? You must admit that your belief of the requirement of evidence over-rides your belief of all that exists is unobservable? They are mutually exclusive.


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Not to sound redundant, but no, that's not my belief at all.

My position is that I understand that there is most likely an incredible amount of evidence that is not obtainable or observable. That's why I'm agnostic. But, without such evidence, I have no reason to believe. That's why I'm an atheist.
So you commit to atheism, even though you’re aware of the limits of the position? Why?
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:08 PM   #296
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You are lying. Denying it won't change that. Furthermore, you started this thread just so you had an excuse to continue being a contentious asshole. We get it already: You're a contentious asshole. What the fuck do you want any of us to do about that? Babysit you? Get the fuck out of here already! Don't come here with your bullshit asking us to ignore you taking copious dumps on our virtual community. Go shit in your own house.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:28 PM   #297
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Either you have trouble with comprehension or you’re admitting you’re convinced of how correct you are with knowing that nothing beyond ehat we can or currently know exists.
Neither (what else is new, Jerry came up with a false dichotomy!).
Here is what you said:
Quote:
Jerry74 wrote
I think it's quite arrogant for people to be convinced either way, unless you've had genuine near death (walking in to the light experience) it's all based on working off assumptions which cannot be proven either way.
You are accusing atheists of being arrogant for being convinced (not knowing, but convinced) that Yahweh and the associated religions are made up bullshit.

Do you understand the difference between being convinced, and knowing something?

So, yes, you came in here calling atheists arrogant. If that is not what you meant, then you need to learn to express yourself more clearly.
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Supposedly you claim not to know, but it depends which topic you’re referencing, when you choose to apply this statement.
I don't know many things on many topics, and I will always admit it if that is the case. Are you saying that, if you don't know something, you have to always say you don't know, even when it's on a topic that you do? That is a bizarre all-or-nothing approach!
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
I now know that the regulars here are arrogant, but at the time I made this statement, I had no view on whether this could be applied to the regulars here when I made that statement.
I had a pretty good idea from the very first post that you were a shit-stirring troll with a superiority complex, and, boy, was I right on the money!
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
I said “I think it's quite arrogant for people to be convinced either way”. If this is your round about way of admitting that you are convinced of you knowing you're right, it's an odd way of doing so.
Are you convinced about anything, Jerry? Anything at all? Is it arrogant to be convinced that the world is generally spherical in shape?
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Your debating skills consist of repeating the same question.
When the person who is supposed to answer the question consistenly dodges it (probably because he knows that it cornholes his entire argument), one tactic is to constantly repeat the question until he answers it. I see I have some more work to do.
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
This question is one someone else devised so you're merely parrotting it and I've already answered it.
Where? I have yet to see you answer it. If you did, please point out the post.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:33 PM   #298
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And you began as a arrogant cunt, who will no doubt continue along this path, irrespective of what you know. I hold no expectation for you to be otherwise.
Apparently, in Jerry-world, "arrogant cunt" means "won't meekly and blindly accept Jerry's anally-extracted drivel". I'll plead guilty to that.
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Good to see you're still asking the same question.
Good to see you're still dodging the same question.
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Does this question form the basis for your atheism?
No, why would it?

Does this question cause your worldview problems? Otherwise, why are you so reluctant to give a clear answer?

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:42 PM   #299
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
Existence requires an uncaused cause based on the causality we understand. There is no valid alternative.
You have been provided with valid alternatives, you just choose not to accept them, because it makes your "I am above all the theists and atheists" stance crumble.

Why can't the universe be an uncaused cause? Why can't the universe have always existed?
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selliedjoup wrote View Post
If you don't believe it to be true, why apply the premise that evidence is required?
I think Anthony already asked you this, and I don't remember a straight answer: Do you believe everything, without any evidence? On what basis do you accept or reject claims?

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:05 PM   #300
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Will Jerry-god be agnostic when it appears, or know why the saddo made it?

thank goodness he's on our side
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