The latest 9/11 conspiracy theory

This video has been circulating on the net and has apparently drawn a huge following.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=loose+change

I for one consider myself a true skeptic, therefore I am going to be skeptical of any claim based on circumstantial evidence regardless of which side presents it. A skeptic after all is one who demands to be convinced with hard evidence. I'm certainly no fan of the Bush administration (as anyone who knows me could tell you I've hated him ever since the republican primaries of 2000) but there's just something about this theory that sets off alarms in my head. I want to know what the RA resident science geeks think about this theory, from a purely scientific perspective.

I would also request that any discussion on this be kept as civil as possible, as I know how strongly some people feel about this and I have no intention of starting a flame war on this issue. I was already caught in the middle of one not too long ago, and I'd rather not have a repeat of that.

[Choobus]

If the information is true then the official explanation is a lie. It's that simple.

As much as I detest Bush though I find it hard to believe that he, or even his more sinister cronies like cheney and rumsfeld, would be complicit in this just for short term political gain. If he declares martial law in the USA then it will becomea lot more believable.

[Philboid Studge]

I'm not quite cynical enough to believe a conspiracy of this magnitude is even possible, however I disagree with Choobus re martial law -- I don't think that would be in the short or long-term interest of Bush-Cheney. On the other hand, if the executive branch were to accrue greater legislative powers at the expense of the other two branches of gov't, circumvent or re-write laws to accommodate its policies, suspend habeas corpus, ignore or justify breaching the Geneva Conventions, control the media by rewarding favorable corporations/news outlets with both access and beneficent legislation, declare wars on the basis of links to 9/11 in which no such links exist, rig elections by exploiting a climate of fear -- say by raising the terror alert status whenever approval ratings drop, and then justify all these actions by declaring things like "Everything changed after Sept. 11," then maybe I'd had have some doubts. But none of this has happened, has it?

Choobus wrote

If the information is true then the official explanation is a lie. It's that simple.

As much as I detest Bush though I find it hard to believe that he, or even his more sinister cronies like cheney and rumsfeld, would be complicit in this just for short term political gain. If he declares martial law in the USA then it will becomea lot more believable.

That was always my problem with the theory that it is really difficult for Bush to even forum a coherent sentence, and to pull off a stunt like this would be insane. However the loose change movie does raise some interesting points about the falling of the tower, where it falls at 10 seconds, where in perfect free fall it should of fell at 9.8 seconds. However, if it pancaked like the Bush administration said, it would take much longer. Also the suspicious trading of American Airline stock on 9/10...
However it is a bit of a stretch to believe of such a HUGE cover up.

Can you say "Cherry picking, and conspiracy theorist"? I knew you could. I never before heard of the Cuba invasion business. I guess the gov kept that one pretty tight for 45 years. Or maybe I just don't move in the paranoid "the gov is out to get me" circles enough (or at all). The narrative doesn't match the text. If I were to make a case to rational people, I sure wouldn't do it like this.

[Choobus]

maybe Bush will be like that verbal dude from "the usual suspects", and when he ascends to the position of Emperor of the Americas he will suddenly become eloquent and fiercely intelligent, and all the people who misunderestimated him will kick themselves and wish they had voted for Kodos instead.


Maybe.

urgent message for fundies: The Flintstones is not historically accurate

You mean.....Dino...... :( .....Awwww You rooned my day, man.

You mean this Cuba invasion? There's nothing conspiratorial about it. The documents were released by the government itself, as you can see from the Wiki entry. Though, having seen Loose Change 9-11, the whole point of the introduction is that the government has been willing to kill American citizens to further its own goals.

Wikipedia wrote

According to James Bamford in Body of Secrets:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.

So the question is, is it really that much of a stretch of imagine our own government setting up the events of 9-11? I don't think it is, but I don't necessarily think they did, either. The official 9-11 Commission report is certainly garbage, written by partisan hacks.

My point here goes something like this: if you question something, look it up. Don't just dismiss it, because you can end up with something like this. Northwoods was a conspiracy, but it isn't just a theory. It's officially documented fact, available online with thirty seconds of searching.

[edited for civility]

[Gnosital]

That was a very disturbing video, and at the least raises some serious questions that should be investigated by government authorities. Not saying I buy it all, but without looking into it further (and I didn't) i can't entirely dismiss it either.

Is there any reason to think that this administration WOULDN'T consider sacrificing US citizens' lives for the obscene personal gain of a few? I mean, other than the whole unnecessary war in Iraq and all.

And just because Smirky McChimp doesn't have 2 neurons to rub together doesn't mean his handlers couldn't come up with something this sick. Whatever it was, it wasn't what they told us. Of that I am sure.

[Jahrta]

scathach wrote

That was a very disturbing video, and at the least raises some serious questions that should be investigated by government authorities. Not saying I buy it all, but without looking into it further (and I didn't) i can't entirely dismiss it either.

Is there any reason to think that this administration WOULDN'T consider sacrificing US citizens' lives for the obscene personal gain of a few? I mean, other than the whole unnecessary war in Iraq and all.

And just because Smirky McChimp doesn't have 2 neurons to rub together doesn't mean his handlers couldn't come up with something this sick. Whatever it was, it wasn't what they told us. Of that I am sure.

Did I ever tell you that about four months ago, while my wife was inside a Walgreens buying cold pills, a woman approached me as I sat in my car in the parking lot and quickly handed me six homemade documentary cd's all about the various discrepancies and glaring problems with the goverment's official explanation for what happened on 9/11, as well as proof that the buildings themselves were detonated using C-4? The whole thing was very "cloak and dagger" and took me quite off guard. She handed them to me, asked that I watch them (she didn't even ask me what my views were on bush, and at that time i didn't have my "blame bush!" black ribbon magnet (my brother sells them on ebay through his little store for about 5 bucks - i'll give the link if you're interested). And then she disappeared into the night. I watched a few of them - the quality is sucky in spots, and sometimes there's religious quotes read off to drive something home, but other than that the actual information is pretty damning. I'll copy it for anyone who wants to see.

[Choobus]

it's fishy for sure, but so are a lot of things. I was a bit put off by the bit at the end about all the gold. It seems to me that anyone who could orchestrate this sort of thing could get money quite easily elsewhere. Like haliburton, or afghani drug lords or secret CIA slush funds or owning a piece of wal mart china 2010 (the chinese will be flush with cash and will enjoy cheap goods made in america for a pittance. All current wal mart stores in the US will be converted to sweat shops,. and all sweat shops in china will be converted to "great wall-mart" stores in china).

[Philboid Studge]

Viole wrote

[edited for civility]

I'm glad I got to read the pre-edited, uncivil bits. Nice burn! But we don't want the forums to get too civil, do we? Ya big dummy.

[Kate]

I missed a good Viole Goddess Rant?

dammit :(

I don't buy this conspiracy bunk. It's somewhat convincing when you take in over an hour of it all at once without looking into each individual piece. By sheer number of the things they throw at you, they can fill your mind with doubt. After more research, my doubts are gone and I don't see much of anything left unexplained by the "official" story.

[Choobus]

StillSurviving wrote

I don't buy this conspiracy bunk. It's somewhat convincing when you take in over an hour of it all at once without looking into each individual piece. By sheer number of the things they throw at you, they can fill your mind with doubt. After more research, my doubts are gone and I don't see much of anything left unexplained by the "official" story.

the damage (or lack thereof) to the pentagon is a bit hard to explain.