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Old 06-04-2007, 10:25 AM   #391
Choobus
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Why is this thread still going?

Lily, do you understand that from the point of view of an atheist there isn't all that much difference between someone like you and someone in a cult. Now, I am sure that you probably have a similar opinion as to the validity of such cults and the wisdom of joining them, not to mention the blatant falsehoods that comprise their core belief systems. Moreover, I expect you can understand the reasons why most cult members are incapable of realizing what they have gotten themselves into, and why it is practically impossible to enlighten them with mere discussion. Given that, I ask you this: what differentiates you from such cult members (other than the "fact" that your cult is the bestest), and what have you got against Indonesian cuisine?

You can always turn tricks for a few extra bucks. If looks are an issue, there's the glory hole option, but don't expect more than ... tips.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:29 AM   #392
Demigod79
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Lily wrote
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Demigod79 wrote
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Lily wrote
It is hard to believe that Carrier could write something so fatuous. The Chinese were an ancient, highly developed civilization. Israel was a much less developed small tribe. Funny thing, though. God chose them.
I think you missed the point. Carrier was comparing something that was written by man to something that is claimed to be the divinely inspired word of god. If the bible is truly divinely inspired then god is clearly not worth his salt, since a mere mortal can write and communicate a thousand times better.
Demi:
People have been questioning the distribution of God's gifts since the beginning of human history. It is a familiar motif in literature. Did you ever see the movie Amadeus? Shaffer, the author of the play it was based on, used it to drive the plot. Why had God given a dirty-minded yokel like Mozart the musical gifts he, a God-fearing, music loving, devout man had always prayed for? The answer is, as it must ever be, "who can say?" God does what He does. Thus I say that Carrier's statement is simply breath-taking in its fatuity.

Snap, the whole world was created by God and is loved by him. Christ died for all. That we know for certain. I don't think there is much more one can say beyond the fact that Paul states that God is known to all through nature and that men have always known Him. Thus, they will be judged in accordance with the light they had.

Edited for clarity!
Again you missed the point (honestly, are you doing this intentionally?). It's not the gifts of the authors that Carrier was referring to, but the output of their work. In your example Mozart was given the gift of music by god (which was shown by the quality of the music he wrote), even though he was less worthy than Shaffer. Accordingly, if god chose the less advanced Israelites over the advanced Chinese to convey his message then we should see abundant proof in the quality and accuracy of their work. We do not. That is the issue here (can you please address it next time???)

Religion - it gives people hope in a world torn apart by religion.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:29 AM   #393
Lily
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Choobus wrote
Why is this thread still going?
Because people keep adding to it!!

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Lily, do you understand that from the point of view of an atheist there isn't all that much difference between someone like you and someone in a cult.
Yes

Quote:
Now, I am sure that you probably have a similar opinion as to the validity of such cults and the wisdom of joining them, not to mention the blatant falsehoods that comprise their core belief systems. Moreover, I expect you can understand the reasons why most cult members are incapable of realizing what they have gotten themselves into, and why it is practically impossible to enlighten them with mere discussion. Given that, I ask you this: what differentiates you from such cult members (other than the "fact" that your cult is the bestest) ...
Let's save for another thread. I am sick of this one.

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and what have you got against Indonesian cuisine?
Not a thing. Just never have had an opportunity to try it!
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:31 AM   #394
Waddlie
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Choobus wrote
Why is this thread still going?
26 pages without so much as one of these...


One man's strawman is another man's asshole.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:37 AM   #395
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I think you missed the point. Carrier was comparing something that was written by man to something that is claimed to be the divinely inspired word of god. If the bible is truly divinely inspired then god is clearly not worth his salt, since a mere mortal can write and communicate a thousand times better.
Demi:
People have been questioning the distribution of God's gifts since the beginning of human history. It is a familiar motif in literature. Did you ever see the movie Amadeus? Shaffer, the author of the play it was based on, used it to drive the plot. Why had God given a dirty-minded yokel like Mozart the musical gifts he, Salieri, a God-fearing, music loving, devout musician had always prayed for? The answer is, as it must ever be, "who can say?" God does what He does. Thus I say that Carrier's statement is simply breath-taking in its fatuity.

Snap, the whole world was created by God and is loved by him. Christ died for all. That we know for certain. I don't think there is much more one can say beyond the fact that Paul states that God is known to all through nature and that men have always known Him. Thus, they will be judged in accordance with the light they had.

Edited for clarity!
Again you missed the point (honestly, are you doing this intentionally?). It's not the gifts of the authors that Carrier was referring to, but the output of their work. In your example Mozart was given the gift of music by god (which was shown by the quality of the music he wrote), even though he was less worthy than Shaffer [Salieri. My original sentence was incredibly unclear- I clarified it in the quoted bit you used here]. Accordingly, if god chose the less advanced Israelites over the advanced Chinese to convey his message then we should see abundant proof in the quality and accuracy of their work. We do not. That is the issue here (can you please address it next time???)
Sorry if I was unclear. God choses whom he chooses and distributes his gifts as he pleases. If he does not explain himself, we are not bloody likely to figure it out.

Please, in the future, restrain the impulse to accuse me of dishonesty or intentionally misunderstanding you. You may not be a model of clarity. I may not be a model of intellect. Just ask for clarification. Ask 3 or 4 times, if need be and my answer is important to you.

And now, to one and all, any further questions? Start a new thread.

This one has jumped the snark.

(greatly edited for clarity)
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:47 AM   #396
anthonyjfuchs
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Before correcting herself after I exposed her illiteracy, Lily wrote
This one is has jumped the snark.
It certainly was did.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:12 PM   #397
R and All
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What you believe is not nearly as cryptic or difficult to parse as you want to believe it is. You believe a set of unsubstantiated myths that you insist have been substantiated. You believe that a character, who was simultaneously his own father and son, was born to a virgin mother 33 years before he allowed mankind to murder him as a sacrifice to himself in order to redeem the collective transgressions of mankind and protect mankind from his own wrath, which mankind incurred when a dust-man and a rib-woman were tricked into eating a poisoned apple by a talking snake. You believe that the ancient writings of half-a-dozen anonymous authors are sufficient evidence to support these absurd assertions.
:thumbsup:

Which is why I don't understand why people keep trying to communicate with it! It is completely out of touch with reality yet thinks it is the smart one around here! Hopeless!

:wall:

Reality is not a belief. We do not take it on faith, it confirms itself whenever we see physics, chemistry, biology etc. working as predicted by their various empirically obtained rules. - Sternwallow
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:27 PM   #398
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What you believe is not nearly as cryptic or difficult to parse as you want to believe it is. You believe a set of unsubstantiated myths that you insist have been substantiated. You believe that a character, who was simultaneously his own father and son, was born to a virgin mother 33 years before he allowed mankind to murder him as a sacrifice to himself in order to redeem the collective transgressions of mankind and protect mankind from his own wrath, which mankind incurred when a dust-man and a rib-woman were tricked into eating a poisoned apple by a talking snake. You believe that the ancient writings of half-a-dozen anonymous authors are sufficient evidence to support these absurd assertions.
:thumbsup:

Which is why I don't understand why people keep trying to communicate with it! It is completely out of touch with reality yet thinks it is the smart one around here! Hopeless!

:wall:
Ah, but it is smart enough not to attribute to itself views that it has decisively and clearly denied and corrected 2462 times. Now, denied 2463 times. Can't be arsed, as our Brit friends so amusingly say, to undertake any further explanations with the "too prejudiced, too dead of soul/imagination to try and understand it crowd". Particularly since that crowd is too small and too unlikely to ever be more than a nuisance in the political realm to matter.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:32 PM   #399
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It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.

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Old 06-04-2007, 12:32 PM   #400
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Why is this thread still going?
Because Lily is posting on it. She makes any thread to get the highest/fastest traffic.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:39 PM   #401
Waddlie
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Lily wrote
Particularly since that crowd is too small and too unlikely to ever be more than a nuisance in the political realm to matter.
Umm. What the fuck? Political realm? :wall::wall::wall:

Will someone please shoot me in the face? Please?

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Old 06-04-2007, 01:12 PM   #402
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Particularly since that crowd is too small and too unlikely to ever be more than a nuisance in the political realm to matter.
The prepositional phrase "to matter" is quite awkward at the end of that phrase, and primarily because it conflicts with the first prepositional phrase "to ever be more than a nuisance in the political realm" which already completed the phrase "since that crowd is too small and too unlikely..." Which is to say: either the "crowd is too small and too unlikely to ever be more than a nuisance in the political realm," or the "crowd is too small and too unlikely to matter." But unless you do some major repairs on your grammar, it's not both.

Oh, and that "crowd"? 1.1 billion people. Bigger than any religious cult on the planet. Your cownting skills leave much to be desired.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 02:37 PM   #403
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Your cownting skills leave much to be desired.
As do your spelling skills.

:lol::lol::lol:
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Old 06-04-2007, 02:38 PM   #404
nkb
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Your cownting skills leave much to be desired.
As do your spelling skills.

:lol::lol::lol:
The joke's on you, Lily. That was intentional.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 06-04-2007, 02:42 PM   #405
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It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:





:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
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