I just saw the trailer for Expelled

02-24-2009, 01:51 PM

You might think I've been living under a rock (well, I did live in Colorado for a while last year) but I had never heard of this movie until last week. I watched the trailer and went to the website.

I don't get it. Why do all these scientists that are also theists have to peddle the Christian god? Why not Thor? Or any other god? Why does it always have to be biblegod?

nkb · 02-24-2009, 02:18 PM

Well, technically, they're not. That is (from their point of view) the genius of their approach is that they are positing an ambiguous, amorphous "designer", who doesn't have to be Yahweh (but, in their minds, of course, it does).

Of course, ID has been unmasked quite a while ago as just another version of creationism.

As far as the movie, it is always useful to check out http://www.expelledexposed.com/ for some useful background information.

02-24-2009, 02:20 PM

Well, Dawkins sounded a little weird when he posited that ID could be true if aliens (who evolved via darwinian mechanisms) were the intelligence that formed us.

02-24-2009, 02:22 PM

The theistic scientists I've come across, like Francis Collins, seem to all be christians.

nkb · 02-24-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Ellie Arroway wrote

Well, Dawkins sounded a little weird when he posited that ID could be true if aliens (who evolved via darwinian mechanisms) were the intelligence that formed us.

Absent any evidence that we are an alien life form's science project, there is no reason to believe that, but, it is in the realm of possibility.

Of course, that isn't at all what ID proponents want, since all this does is reduces it all back to a first cause argument (were the aliens "created"?), and we're right back where we started.

nkb · 02-24-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Ellie Arroway wrote

The theistic scientists I've come across, like Francis Collins, seem to all be christians.

Sure, that makes sense, since the majority of scientists, that we deal with and hear from, are from the western civilization countries, which are mostly Christian.

But, ID proponents try to be careful to leave the posited designer as generic as possible, to try to avoid the whole conflict between the different religions and gods.

Sternwallow · 02-25-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Ellie Arroway wrote

You might think I've been living under a rock (well, I did live in Colorado for a while last year) but I had never heard of this movie until last week. I watched the trailer and went to the website.

I don't get it. Why do all these scientists that are also theists have to peddle the Christian god? Why not Thor? Or any other god? Why does it always have to be biblegod?

They have all been seduced away from the true Leprechaunism by evil forces intent on dividing us (the tolerant non-Christians from the intolerant non-Christians) so that we will become disorganized and ripe for conquest or capture.

Tenspace · 02-25-2009, 09:05 AM

Ellie, I have a copy of Expelled. You can borrow it, if you like. It's actually good training for evolution, just remember, the opposite of everything they say is correct. Makes it easy.

assilem · 02-25-2009, 11:15 AM

I like his "lightning hitting mud" argument. Frankly, that sounds more like a Creationist theory than an Evolutionist theory.

02-25-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

nkb wrote

Absent any evidence that we are an alien life form's science project, there is no reason to believe that, but, it is in the realm of possibility.

Of course, that isn't at all what ID proponents want, since all this does is reduces it all back to a first cause argument (were the aliens "created"?), and we're right back where we started.

The way I look at it is like this.

If there was a creator then that's weird because how do you explain "its" existence.

If there wasn't a creator then reality is REALLY weird because it still doesn't explain how matter and time and space got here.

02-25-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

assilem wrote

I like his "lightning hitting mud" argument. Frankly, that sounds more like a Creationist theory than an Evolutionist theory.

Since you put it that way....it does sound that way...

nkb · 02-25-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Ellie Arroway wrote

The way I look at it is like this.

If there was a creator then that's weird because how do you explain "its" existence.

If there wasn't a creator then reality is REALLY weird because it still doesn't explain how matter and time and space got here.

To me, it's the other way around: I think it's far more weird to assume a supernatural creature, because you've added another layer of weird, and got no closer to the actual answer.

Sternwallow · 02-25-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Ellie Arroway wrote

The way I look at it is like this.

If there was a creator then that's weird because how do you explain "its" existence.

If there wasn't a creator then reality is REALLY weird because it still doesn't explain how matter and time and space got here.

There is yet another weirdness because, even if you postulate a creator, you hav still not explained how everything that is came to be. Some creation myths recognize this problem and say that all matter/space/time came from the ejaculate of one of their gods. The Jewish/Christian/Muslim gods show no such causal relationship between their causer and what it is supposed to have caused.

In short, "God did it" is not an explanation for anything even if God somehow really existed.