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Old 06-14-2007, 04:49 PM   #16
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a different tim wrote
We already know that the speed of light was much faster, so that the light from distant galaxies could reach Earth within 6000 years, so maybe other laws of physics were different too.
This is a common misconception. Since the stars appeared in the sky in the first days of creation, light must have been fast, predecded by an adjective like "damn"!

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Old 06-14-2007, 04:53 PM   #17
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Boat technology was also vastly different back then too. You could build 450 foot long boats out of nothing but wood that would survive global storm systems.

Perhaps they could also make tiny boats you could wear like shoes.
So Jesus says to his apostles "Oh, and by the way, if anyone asks you what I was doing out there, just tell them I was wandering around on the water and they'll go away and stop bothering you about it, verily".

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Old 06-15-2007, 12:53 AM   #18
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RenaissanceMan wrote
Boat technology was also vastly different back then too. You could build 450 foot long boats out of nothing but wood that would survive global storm systems.
Surprisingly, the Chinese managed to do this.

Clearly Noah's Ark is the same design as the Chinese treasure fleet. This PROVES that Atlantis existed.

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Old 06-15-2007, 01:12 AM   #19
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Professor Chaos wrote
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/

Choobus, care to rip this douchewizard a new one?
Honestly, I am not capable of ripping him a new one. His knowledge of physics would probably put mine to shame. The problem is, he doesn't respect reality, so in a way he's not really a physicist anymore. He's turned to the math side. If I strike him down he will become more impotent than I could possibly care about. It's quite sad to see a good mind go this way. It's kind of like Miles Davis playing jingles for a McDonalds commercial.

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Old 06-15-2007, 05:00 AM   #20
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a different tim wrote
Quote:
RenaissanceMan wrote
Boat technology was also vastly different back then too. You could build 450 foot long boats out of nothing but wood that would survive global storm systems.
Surprisingly, the Chinese managed to do this.

Clearly Noah's Ark is the same design as the Chinese treasure fleet. This PROVES that Atlantis existed.
Disputable, according to Wiki. Obviously, they burned all the craftsman, their tools and papers. Any time I see "Lost Art", I smell Atlantean-style mythology.
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Old 06-15-2007, 07:20 AM   #21
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Rat Bastard wrote
Quote:
a different tim wrote
Quote:
RenaissanceMan wrote
Boat technology was also vastly different back then too. You could build 450 foot long boats out of nothing but wood that would survive global storm systems.
Surprisingly, the Chinese managed to do this.

Clearly Noah's Ark is the same design as the Chinese treasure fleet. This PROVES that Atlantis existed.
Disputable, according to Wiki. Obviously, they burned all the craftsman, their tools and papers.
They pretty much did.

The late Ming emperors decided that China could only get worse by having contact with the outside world, and were quite thorough about severing those contacts along with any chance of reestablishing them. This is fairly well documented.

Chinese ship used different design principles from western ships. Western ships were essentially rigid tension structures rigged with taut ropes. Chinese ships were flexible structures - the Chinese sail, for example, flexes in a high wind and relieves strain on the mast, thus enabling Chinese ships to get away with really spindly looking masts compared to Western ships. (Remembered from herehere or possibly his other book, can't remember right now, but they're really good and actually make structural engineering interesting to laymen). From what I dimly recall Chinese hulls were based on similar principles and had some flexure designed in which would make hogging less of an issue. No, I have no idea how this would work in practice.

You also have to account for Western historians dismissing Chinese claims because they're Chinese. Watertight compartments, which the Wiki discussion page points out were invented in China, would massively alleviate the pumping problem for example.

None of which says the ships were genuinely that big. 450 ft may be an exaggeration, and 600 ft certainly is IMHO. I wouldn't be at all suprised if the ships were of the order of hundreds of feet though, so in the ballpark. There has been a rudder post found, mentioned in the discussion page and in the Wiki page on largest wooden ships, that when extrapolated gives a length of approx 400 ft.

Quote:
Any time I see "Lost Art", I smell Atlantean-style mythology.
Atlantis was real! Kilik and Graham Hancock say so!

Seriously, though, technologies and arts do get lost, though generally because they are superseded rather than deliberately destroyed. Staying with maritime matters, for example, I doubt that many people alive today could circumnavigate the globe using only a sextant and dead reckoning. One of our oldest technologies, flint knapping, was pretty much lost for thousands of years and although there are some modern practitioners I don't think you'll find many who claim they are up to neolithic standards.
:offtopic:, I know.....

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Old 06-15-2007, 11:48 AM   #22
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What is flint knapping?
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:52 AM   #23
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hitting a piece of flint with another stone, to make some kind of an object, usually for cutting....like those funky prehistoric knives made of flint, or some other rock...

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Rat Bastard wrote
Quote:
a different tim wrote
Quote:
RenaissanceMan wrote
Boat technology was also vastly different back then too. You could build 450 foot long boats out of nothing but wood that would survive global storm systems.
Surprisingly, the Chinese managed to do this.

Clearly Noah's Ark is the same design as the Chinese treasure fleet. This PROVES that Atlantis existed.
Disputable, according to Wiki. Obviously, they burned all the craftsman, their tools and papers. Any time I see "Lost Art", I smell Atlantean-style mythology.
The ark was not a boat of anything like the same design as the Chinese one. It had no steering and no propulsion. It was, at best, a covered barge.

While it might have been possible to make a keel for that Chinese boat using massive trees, none of the candidates for "Gopher wood" grew that large so, even the main frame of the ark, 30x50x300 cubits, must have been inadequate for use on a stormy sea.

Also, if there were any leaks, the only place it could have been bailed out through is that single window, 1x1 cubit squared, that the whole menagerie had to breathe through. It was also the only source of illumination for the inside because any flame would have used up yet more oxygen.

This biomass was stuck in a nearly airtight box for more than half a year!

It is a good thing that the Flood story is not far fetched, otherwise belief in it would raise some highly mental questions.

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Old 06-15-2007, 12:03 PM   #25
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a different tim wrote
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Rat Bastard wrote
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a different tim wrote
Surprisingly, the Chinese managed to do this.

Clearly Noah's Ark is the same design as the Chinese treasure fleet. This PROVES that Atlantis existed.
Disputable, according to Wiki. Obviously, they burned all the craftsman, their tools and papers.
They pretty much did.

The late Ming emperors decided that China could only get worse by having contact with the outside world, and were quite thorough about severing those contacts along with any chance of reestablishing them. This is fairly well documented.

Chinese ship used different design principles from western ships. Western ships were essentially rigid tension structures rigged with taut ropes. Chinese ships were flexible structures - the Chinese sail, for example, flexes in a high wind and relieves strain on the mast, thus enabling Chinese ships to get away with really spindly looking masts compared to Western ships. (Remembered from herehere or possibly his other book, can't remember right now, but they're really good and actually make structural engineering interesting to laymen). From what I dimly recall Chinese hulls were based on similar principles and had some flexure designed in which would make hogging less of an issue. No, I have no idea how this would work in practice.

You also have to account for Western historians dismissing Chinese claims because they're Chinese. Watertight compartments, which the Wiki discussion page points out were invented in China, would massively alleviate the pumping problem for example.

None of which says the ships were genuinely that big. 450 ft may be an exaggeration, and 600 ft certainly is IMHO. I wouldn't be at all suprised if the ships were of the order of hundreds of feet though, so in the ballpark. There has been a rudder post found, mentioned in the discussion page and in the Wiki page on largest wooden ships, that when extrapolated gives a length of approx 400 ft.

Quote:
Any time I see "Lost Art", I smell Atlantean-style mythology.
Atlantis was real! Kilik and Graham Hancock say so!

Seriously, though, technologies and arts do get lost, though generally because they are superseded rather than deliberately destroyed. Staying with maritime matters, for example, I doubt that many people alive today could circumnavigate the globe using only a sextant and dead reckoning. One of our oldest technologies, flint knapping, was pretty much lost for thousands of years and although there are some modern practitioners I don't think you'll find many who claim they are up to neolithic standards.
:offtopic:, I know.....
Of course, you're right. Sometimes I see that disputable stuff and lump it in with xtianity.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #26
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hitting a piece of flint with another stone, to make some kind of an object, usually for cutting....like those funky prehistoric knives made of flint, or some other rock...
Huh, I thought it was Hustler Magazine's publisher getting caught lying down...ba-dump, pssh!
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:09 PM   #27
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hitting a piece of flint with another stone, to make some kind of an object, usually for cutting....like those funky prehistoric knives made of flint, or some other rock...
Thanks Eva :)
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:22 PM   #28
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This biomass was stuck in a nearly airtight box for more than half a year!
Odd, I thought it was under 2 months.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:32 PM   #29
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snap crafter wrote
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This biomass was stuck in a nearly airtight box for more than half a year!
Odd, I thought it was under 2 months.
It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but it took longer for the water to disappear.

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Old 06-15-2007, 02:42 PM   #30
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snap crafter wrote
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This biomass was stuck in a nearly airtight box for more than half a year!
Odd, I thought it was under 2 months.
It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but it took longer for the water to disappear.
Well damn, teaches me to post something when I need to shit.
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