08-31-2007, 05:41 PM
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#1
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Guest
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1, 2, 3, 4, I declare a flame war
http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-wc67.html
Quote:
Cato wrote
Last year, the Maryland NAACP released a report concluding that "the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today."(1) Their conclusion appears to be confirmed by academic research. For example, research by Dr. June O'Neill's and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.(2)
As Barbara Dafoe Whitehead noted in her seminal article for The Atlantic Monthly:
1. The relationship [between single-parent families and crime] is so strong that controlling for family configuration erases the relationship between race and crime and between low income and crime. This conclusion shows up time and again in the literature. The nation's mayors, as well as police officers, social workers, probation officers, and court officials, consistently point to family break up as the most important source of rising rates of crime.(6)
Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appallingly lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare.(12)
I should also point out that, once the child is born, welfare also appears to discourage the mother from marrying in the future. Research by Robert Hutchins of Cornell University shows that a 10 percent increase in AFDC benefits leads to an eight percent decrease in the marriage rate of single mothers.(13)
As welfare contributes to the rise in out-of-wedlock births and single-parent families, it concomitantly contributes to the associated increase in criminal activity.
The role of marriage and family as a civilizing influence on young men has long been discussed. Whether or not strict causation can be proven, it is certainly true that unwed fathers are more likely to use drugs and become involved in criminal behavior.(14) Indeed, single men are five times more likely to commit violent crimes than married men.(15)
Finally, in areas where there is a high concentration of welfare, there may be an almost total lack of male role models. This can lead to crime in two ways. First, as the Maryland NAACP puts it, "A child whose parents draw a welfare check without going to work does not understand that in this society at least one parent is expected to rise five days of each week to go to some type of job."(16)
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http://www.childrensjustice.org/fatherlessness2.htm
Quote:
site wrote
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)
California has the nation's highest juvenile incarceration rate and the nation's highest juvenile unemployment rate. Vincent Schiraldi, Executive Director, Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, "What Hallinan's Victory Means," San Francisco Chronicle (12/28/95).
These statistics translate to mean that children from a fatherless home are:
5 times more likely to commit suicide.
32 times more likely to run away.
20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders.
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to drop out of high school.
10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances.
9 times more likely to end up in a state-operated institution.
20 times more likely to end up in prison.
"Daughters of single parents are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a premarital birth, and 92% more likely to dissolve their own marriages. All these intergenerational consequences of single motherhood increase the likelihood of chronic welfare dependency." Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, Atlantic Monthly (April 1993).
Daughters of single parents are 2.1 times more likely to have children during their teenage years than are daughters from intact families. The Good Family Man, David Blankenhorn.
71% of teenage pregnancies are to children of single parents. U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.
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08-31-2007, 06:50 PM
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#2
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Alcoholic Primate
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College
Posts: 1,737
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There are some flaws with the argument, but it is interesting at least.
The first part is some stupid libertarian crap from the Cato institute:
Quote:
Last year, the Maryland NAACP released a report concluding that "the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today."(1) Their conclusion appears to be confirmed by academic research. For example, research by Dr. June O'Neill's and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.(2)
As Barbara Dafoe Whitehead noted in her seminal article for The Atlantic Monthly:
1. The relationship [between single-parent families and crime] is so strong that controlling for family configuration erases the relationship between race and crime and between low income and crime. This conclusion shows up time and again in the literature. The nation's mayors, as well as police officers, social workers, probation officers, and court officials, consistently point to family break up as the most important source of rising rates of crime.(6)
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So which is the problem- increased welfare (which you couldn't correlate directly to the increased crime anyway) or single parent families?
What the fuck kind of reference is this? It sounds like they are citing a term paper.
Quote:
(2) M. Anne Hill and June O'Neill, "Underclass Behaviors in the United States: Measurement and Analysis of Determinants," Barcuch College, City University of New York, March 1990.
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"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins
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08-31-2007, 06:52 PM
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#3
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Alcoholic Primate
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College
Posts: 1,737
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Quote:
Facts about fatherless families
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So what would you suggest? Do we force the fathers to stay with the families and create even more problems? Do we violate the rights of these individuals by sterilizing them?
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins
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08-31-2007, 07:28 PM
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#4
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Guest
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Quote:
DrunkMonkey wrote
So what would you suggest? Do we force the fathers to stay with the families and create even more problems? Do we violate the rights of these individuals by sterilizing them?
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Neither. All I'm saying is that the children of single parents are at a great disadvantage vs. the children of married parents.
How about a $100 (or some other token amount) dollar fine for having a child out of wedlock? A stronger deterrent is needed.
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08-31-2007, 07:46 PM
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#5
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,765
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Quote:
Another brick in the wall wrote
How about a $100 (or some other token amount) dollar fine for having a child out of wedlock? A stronger deterrent is needed.
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How about some decent sex-education starting in middle-school that amounts to more than "sex makes baby Jesus cry"?
a‧the‧ist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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08-31-2007, 08:01 PM
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#6
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Guest
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Quote:
DrunkMonkey wrote
The first part is some stupid libertarian crap from the Cato institute
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What's stupid about it?
Quote:
DrunkMonkey wrote
So which is the problem- increased welfare (which you couldn't correlate directly to the increased crime anyway) or single parent families?
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It's one problem. Single parent families account for the majority of welfare recipients.
See Table 4
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/povme.../cohabtab.html
"Since single mothers compose the large majority of welfare recipients,..."
http://www.yaleeconomicreview.com/is...farereform.php
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08-31-2007, 08:04 PM
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#7
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 3rd notch in the bible belt
Posts: 1,342
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Quote:
anthonyjfuchs wrote
How about some decent sex-education starting in middle-school that amounts to more than "sex makes baby Jesus cry"?
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Exactly.
I dunno - the top article is from Cato, which will twist any factoid it can to make it look as if any government-sponsored program is a problem so they can argue that it needs to be ended.
The bottom article really means nothing. They throw out a bunch of facts, then they say:
Quote:
These statistics translate to mean that children from a fatherless home are
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Really? They do? How so? How did you arrive at your figures? Did you compare these random statistics to the population at large?
Just seems rather specious to me.
Christian: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. - Ambrose Bierce
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08-31-2007, 08:54 PM
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#8
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Guest
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Quote:
DrunkMonkey wrote
So what would you suggest? Do we force the fathers to stay with the families and create even more problems? Do we violate the rights of these individuals by sterilizing them?
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Shoot the child, the woman can try again later.
Or why don't we let the father have the child for a change? It couldn't hurt'm any more than an emotionally unstable woman would.
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08-31-2007, 09:49 PM
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#9
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I Live Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Around the way
Posts: 12,641
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I don't know that I would disagree with many of this report's conclusions. In my experience, longterm dependence on welfare does tend to become self-defeating and, over generations, those who become mired in welfare dependency really do become unaccustomed to the idea of a work ethic. But is the solution to just cut them off at the knees and withdraw all social support systems? Surely, we can come up with a saner approach than that.
"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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08-31-2007, 09:50 PM
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#10
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Guest
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I vote for mass genocide, things have been way too boring lately.
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08-31-2007, 10:13 PM
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#11
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I Live Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Around the way
Posts: 12,641
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Quote:
snap crafter wrote
I vote for mass genocide, things have been way too boring lately.
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That's a very revealing statement, even as a pathetic attempt at humor. Do you actually derive pleasure from presenting yourself this way in a public forum? Seriously, man, get help.
"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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08-31-2007, 11:52 PM
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#12
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Alcoholic Primate
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College
Posts: 1,737
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Quote:
Another brick in the wall wrote
What's stupid about it?
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Its libertarian bullshit that twists facts- look at how they apparently cited some college paper that supports their anti-government conclusions.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins
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09-01-2007, 06:19 AM
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#13
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Guest
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Quote:
Irreligious wrote
That's a very revealing statement, even as a pathetic attempt at humor. Do you actually derive pleasure from presenting yourself this way in a public forum? Seriously, man, get help.
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Mreh?
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09-01-2007, 09:17 AM
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#14
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Guest
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Quote:
DrunkMonkey wrote
Its libertarian bullshit that twists facts- look at how they apparently cited some college paper that supports their anti-government conclusions.
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The same guys published other papers.
Seems legit: http://www.nlsbibliography.org/qauth...;NEILL,+JUNE+E.
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09-01-2007, 10:21 AM
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#15
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Alcoholic Primate
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College
Posts: 1,737
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Quote:
Another brick in the wall wrote
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Quote:
The NLS Annotated Bibliography - Author Search Results
Search returned 0 items.
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It doesn't matter if they published other papers. If this paper wasn't published it is probably crap.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins
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