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Old 02-11-2008, 09:19 AM   #16
whoneedscience
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Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
Really? Fuck, have I been wrong all these years.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:40 AM   #17
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Influence in the form of sexual encounters , perhaps. Or sexual experiences of any kind. Or sexual thoughts. Personally I wouldn't even consider coprophilia even a year ago. It's not an orientation in the sense that homosexuality is, but still.
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:11 AM   #18
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Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
However, jeebus can cure gayness (just ask haggard). Truly, the Lord is said to work in completely unbelievable ways.

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Old 02-11-2008, 10:12 AM   #19
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Does anyone know where evolution put my keys?

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Old 02-11-2008, 10:15 AM   #20
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skribb wrote View Post
Influence in the form of sexual encounters , perhaps. Or sexual experiences of any kind. Or sexual thoughts. Personally I wouldn't even consider coprophilia even a year ago. It's not an orientation in the sense that homosexuality is, but still.
Does that mean you consider it now?

Homosexuality is similar to any other type of sexual desire in that it is not a choice to be sexually aroused by it, it just is sexually arousing for some people.

I couldn't even fathom voluntarily being covered in shit for sexual purposes (or for any other purpose), but I can accept that others derive pleasure from it, and I support their freedom to do so.

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Old 02-11-2008, 10:17 AM   #21
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Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
In the case of gay teachers, that is usually not the concern for parents. They are worried that the teacher will sexually abuse their son, not necessarily make him gay.

Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:18 AM   #22
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Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.
They're not all predators?

But...but...that guy? That guy that Lily knew in Massachusetts? I thought he represented every gay man or woman since the dawn of man?

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Old 02-11-2008, 11:44 AM   #23
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Anecdotal evidence only applies when Lily uses it as proof. So, in that case, it would be true.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #24
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Hey, does anyone know what scientists have decided the evolutionary reason for homosexuals are? Just curious. Thanks.
To address the original question of this thread, I think it's a logical fallacy to assume that every deviation from the norm is somehow beneficial in terms of evolution.
Evolution does not have a goal. Even if homosexuality was purely genetic, there is no inherent reason behind it.

That's kind of like arguing why evolution is making humans taller (on average).

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Old 02-11-2008, 12:52 PM   #25
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nkb wrote View Post
In the case of gay teachers, that is usually not the concern for parents. They are worried that the teacher will sexually abuse their son, not necessarily make him gay.

Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.
Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.

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Old 02-11-2008, 01:10 PM   #26
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Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.
But the majority of the pigs are quakin' for the fully cured bacon, I would hope.

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Old 02-11-2008, 01:15 PM   #27
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Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.

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Old 02-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #28
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Evolution does not have a goal. Even if homosexuality was purely genetic, there is no inherent reason behind it.
Evolution does not have a goal, true, but I think it's a valid question to ask what kinds of competitive advantages a behaviour might convey (purely genetic or not) given that it is common in the animal world. You at least have to explain why that "deviation" is not heavily selected against. I took that to be the meaning behind the question.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:26 PM   #29
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Evolution does not have a goal, true, but I think it's a valid question to ask what kinds of competitive advantages a behaviour might convey (purely genetic or not) given that it is common in the animal world. You at least have to explain why that "deviation" is not heavily selected against. I took that to be the meaning behind the question.
I'm no expert on evolution, so pardon me if I say something stupid.

I'm not saying it is or isn't an advantage, even though in the purely "natural selection" view, it can't be, since homosexual animals are less likely to reproduce.
And, would we necessarily see the selection process in the relatively small window that we've been studying this issue in the animal kingdom? It's not like we can go back in the fossil record and determine the sexuality of animals, and whether they became extinct or not because of it.

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Old 02-11-2008, 03:11 PM   #30
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My background is the same as yours, nkb. I guess the only thing I take issue with is the automatic assumption that natural selection must necessarily select against homosexuality. That would be like saying that natural selection breeds against cooperation, when in fact we see cooperative behaviour all over the place.

I also don't think it's a small observational window when you see a behaviour in chimps, penguins, etc, although I see what you mean.
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