Nature versus Nurture Theory

Sternwallow wrote

What a splendid place the C6H12N2O4S2 Chapel is! It is no wonder that the plaster behind the lovely paintings was made from crushed kidney stones donated by the faithful congregants.

you said C6H12N2O4S2!

I have a degree in Anthropology-Sociology was never my thing though. One mandatory class that was more of a statistical analysis course--and I was done with it. I avoided it as best I could along with psychology.


The problem with Cultural Anthropology is, in my opinion, the pervasiveness of people concerned more with cultural "spandrels" and less with underlying common motivations.

It has become a cannibalistic little pool of folks who can't even decide on a core set of readings to bring one up to speed.

I found the most reasonable concept in Cultural Anthropology --"Cultural Materialism"--and stuck with it. Only to have my collegues state it was as incorrect a view as those "Sociobiologists."

The contempt in that statement moved me right out of the field.

[Gnosital]

Sternwallow wrote

Sure, psychology is every bit as much a science as philately.

GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You will take that back when I get to Sternacuse, or ELSE!!!!

I may have to wrestle you over it.

[Gnosital]

DrunkMonkey wrote

I rather like sociology. I took the honors version of intro to sociology. Took one test, wrote one paper, got an easy A. The professor forgot to assign the final 10+ page paper so she decided to scrap it. She even decided to skip teaching one day and show an episode of 'Weeds" instead.

The way I see it (and I am probably wrong) sociology is some weird hybrid between anthropology and psychology.

Yeah, honors soc. Real challenging.

Sociology stole their only good research studies from psychology, and got it all wrong when reporting them in their textbooks.

Gnosital wrote

Yeah, honors soc. Real challenging.

Sociology stole their only good research studies from psychology, and got it all wrong when reporting them in their textbooks.

There are a myriad of problems in academic sociology right now – but probably the biggest is that they are wrangling over research aims. Some folks are arguing for value neutrality (pretending that they are doing science) and some are arguing for political/public goals. Of course there is no value neutrality in any research so I tend to agree with the public sociologists. Then again I don’t think that sociology is science in the typical sense – just like I wouldn’t call political science “science.”

But sociologists have many good ideas – and for my money are better positioned than psychologists to tackle macro level behavioral problems. Just look at the public school system. Lot of help all those school those psychologists are eh? Problem isn’t always (and probably rarely) with individual kids and their relationship to school work. The problems are most often cultural – family, social standing, income levels, etc. Too bad sociology is dead in America. Our hyper individualism (thanks in large part to the fuck ups of psychology) will keep it dead.

[Gnosital]

ManInTheWild wrote

There are a myriad of problems in academic sociology right now – but probably the biggest is that they are wrangling over research aims. Some folks are arguing for value neutrality (pretending that they are doing science) and some are arguing for political/public goals. Of course there is no value neutrality in any research so I tend to agree with the public sociologists. Then again I don’t think that sociology is science in the typical sense – just like I wouldn’t call political science “science.”

I dig what you're saying.

But sociologists have many good ideas – and for my money are better positioned than psychologists to tackle macro level behavioral problems. Just look at the public school system. Lot of help all those school those psychologists are eh? Problem isn’t always (and probably rarely) with individual kids and their relationship to school work. The problems are most often cultural – family, social standing, income levels, etc. Too bad sociology is dead in America. Our hyper individualism (thanks in large part to the fuck ups of psychology) will keep it dead.

School psychologists are no more scientists than are sociologists, in fact even less so. And social psych generally focuses on the individual's behavior, but also encompasses many of the areas of group behavior. Anything sociology does, social psych can do just as well (or badly!) Individualism in this country is a cultural-political thing, and not any more the fault of psychology "fuck ups" than war is the fault of war correspondents.

Gnosital wrote

I dig what you're saying.



School psychologists are no more scientists than are sociologists, in fact even less so. And social psych generally focuses on the individual's behavior, but also encompasses many of the areas of group behavior. Anything sociology does, social psych can do just as well (or badly!) Individualism in this country is a cultural-political thing, and not any more the fault of psychology "fuck ups" than war is the fault of war correspondents.

Allrighty then. I don’t have time to defend soc here. I’ve spent the last year or so evaluating social science disciplines as a grad student (and am a huge supporter of the sociological perspective) but have decided to move towards other disciplines (namely economics and policy) where I can do very similar research – study the same problems – but not leave school with the baggage that soc has. What a shame. People tend to say that Sociology is easy (and useless) but this might be more a matter of convenience – in my humble opinion. Sociologists are the anthropologists of industrial society. What culture wants to put itself under a microscope and ask the difficult questions? Way easier to ask the hard questions about others. I could argue that a good chunk of “productive” psychology has been in bolstering the cultural concept of American individualism – and all the crap that goes along with it (like our blind consumerism) but I’m sure I would just be labeled a rabid Marxist (which I’m not) so I won’t.

Speaking of which, as someone who wishes to become a psychologist, I am especially interested in what's wrong with it. So far I have only seen critique against actual psychologists being crappy at their jobs, and not the discipline itself.

[Gnosital]

ManInTheWild wrote

Allrighty then. I don’t have time to defend soc here. I’ve spent the last year or so evaluating social science disciplines as a grad student (and am a huge supporter of the sociological perspective) but have decided to move towards other disciplines (namely economics and policy) where I can do very similar research – study the same problems – but not leave school with the baggage that soc has. What a shame. People tend to say that Sociology is easy (and useless) but this might be more a matter of convenience – in my humble opinion. Sociologists are the anthropologists of industrial society. What culture wants to put itself under a microscope and ask the difficult questions? Way easier to ask the hard questions about others. I could argue that a good chunk of “productive” psychology has been in bolstering the cultural concept of American individualism – and all the crap that goes along with it (like our blind consumerism) but I’m sure I would just be labeled a rabid Marxist (which I’m not) so I won’t.

Perhaps my view of sociology is narrow, but so is your view of psychology. Physiological psychology has been of great service understanding the neurochemical bases of behavior, and has in no way promoted any kind of social individualism. To be fair, I can see where some therapeutic perspectives (humanism!!) may have done so (as a result of the cultural currents that were happening anyway! Psychology is a product of the zeitgeist, man!). But humanistic psych is a dinosaur; that and psychoanalysis are largely becoming relegated to the category of pop psychology.

If you want to, I can see why you'd want to blame behaviorism for the the rampant use of conditioning principles in advertising, but again the knowledge gained from the science is only a tool that can be beneficial or harmful according to the goals of the user.

Don't blame scientists for the misuse of their discoveries by political or business entities!

I blame society! Society made me what I am!

Aw, Bullshit Duke, you're just another white suburban punk like me.

Yeah..cough cough...but it still hurts....

[PhilOchsLives]

I used to nod off in Sociology class. Once I fell completely asleep and started snoring.

I got an A for the semester.

[Sternwallow]

PhilOchsLives wrote

I used to nod off in Sociology class. Once I fell completely asleep and started snoring.

I got an A for the semester.

Probably for presenting the most cogent and penetrating critique of sociology itself.

[Victus]

The Awoken One wrote

Why? What's wrong with my post? I learned about this is my sociology class the other day and was just curious as to what you guys think about this theory.

Well there's your problem.

[Victus]

Gnosital wrote

Well THERE's your problem!!! I can't believe how many schools still require the study of pseudoscience.

.. Uncanny. I didn't read this before I posted.

[Victus]

skribb wrote

Speaking of which, as someone who wishes to become a psychologist, I am especially interested in what's wrong with it. So far I have only seen critique against actual psychologists being crappy at their jobs, and not the discipline itself.

For psychological research, the bar seems to be lowered. Admitedly, we will never have as much experimental control as fields such as chemistry or physics (thought animal studies come close), but some psychology researchers take the leeway the field gives them too far (conducting poorly designed, poorly controlled studies and proclaiming some level of success).

From my experience working with the sociology department, it is the same basic problem, only magnified many times over. The bar for what constitutes "evidence" for sociology essentially rests on the floor. I've seen sociologists spin elaborate theories of group behaviour based on nothing other than their own speculation.