Alternative energy. What are your thoughts?

[ubs]

Livingstrong wrote

I don't have a problem with that :D

Yeah! I don't think our being poorer will be all bad.

ubs wrote

Yeah! I don't think our being poorer will be all bad.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You can be filthy rich riding a $ 5,000.00 US dollar Colnago titanum bike.

genius2687 wrote

If we use algae to produce hydrogen, the tables could turn. Algae use the light from the sun as energy and do the work for us to create hydrogen. We just need to find a way to make the process more efficient via genetic engineering.

Even if that were the case, several major problems would still remain - primarily that there is no good way to transport it or store it. You'd be using solar or other means to produce energy which is then stored as hydrogen. I understand that algae could possibly be made to very efficiently produce hydrogen as a black box of sorts, but they would also necessarily be using much of that energy to produce ATP and sugar for their own survival. It would likely be much more efficient to find a means of going more directly from photons to electrons, which could be used without the hydrogen intermediary. Clearly this technology isn't ready now, but it still seems much more straightforward.

I could possibly see a world where solar cells (biological or otherwise) are used ubiquitously as roofing tiles, and hydrogen fuel cells replace batteries to store that energy in a kind of decentralized power grid, but that would depend entirely on what was found to be most efficient. The problem is that all hydrogen would ever be is a glorified battery, so if another technology - for instance ultracapacitors - could be made more efficient, we'd use that and say to hell with hydrogen, because the problems of transporting it and storing it would make things absurdly complicated. Even if algae could outdo every electric solar cell, we'd probably be better off burning it immediately to produce electricity, which could then be transported using more conventional means.

[Choobus]

alternative energy is awesome. We should totally get some.

Get a horse or get a bike. Of course mass transportation (truckers, planes, pope mobile) will need some overhaul. No doubt there will be a massive depression, a religious reawakening will occur (which puts the blame of the crisis on gays and heathens) we'll be a theology.

[DrunkMonkey]

I think the only real way of powering cars is to make them electric- we just need better batteries (there is already research promising faster charging and higher capacity). Then the only question is where to get the electricity- solar and wind are proven technologies that can become much more widespread with further refinement (they need to be more efficient).

In the mean time we need to stay away from bullshit like ethanol (from corn).

Choobus wrote

alternative energy is awesome. We should totally get some.

Agreed! Normal energy is so 19th century, kids today can't identify with James Prescott Joule! We need a new, alternative energy for the 21st century, with a cool new unit - I propose the Choob, where 1 Choob is the amount of energy needed to vaporise a 75 kg person with a death ray.

[Sternwallow]

genius2687 wrote

Currently I think that hydrogen is our best bet.

The production

The biggest issue is being able to make it cheaply. There are three ways.

1. Electrolysis. This is problematic because you expend as much energy by separating the H2 molecules as you produce by combusting it with Oxygen.

2. Deriving it from hydrocarbons. You can get hydrogen from natural gas, and oil. Getting it this way kind of defeats the purpose of it's use for an alternative energy since natural gas and oil are running out and nonrenewable.

3. Make it using algae farms. This one seems to be the best approach which is currently being undertaken by biologists. They are focused on trying to improve the efficiency of hydrogen production. Some additional genetic engineering is necessary.

Storage

Next comes a practical way to store it

1. Store it as a gas. Not a good idea. You won't go far if you had a 22 gallon gas tank on your car filled with non-pressurized hydrogen gas. The fuel would be used up very rapidly.

2. Liquify it and store it in tanks capable of withstanding 10,000 psi. Hydrogen liquifies at -253 C and this requires a lot of energy to cool it down. Even hydrogen liquid is very lightweight and to put a substantial amount of it in a car would require quite a heavy tank or tanks (perhaps up to 6000 lbs).

3. Fuel cells. More work needs to be done in terms of cost and efficiency, but perhaps someday this could be practical.

4. Storage in carbon nanotubes. More work needs to be done here as well for this to be a practical method as well in terms of cost and efficiency but it could be promising someday.

Creating a Hydrogen Infrastructure

This is going to take a lot of work over the next 20-30 years. You need to convince the public to buy hydrogen vehicles, make hydrogen stations, etc. It would probably be best to have some federal funding program just like the space race to do this. An addition, oil companies like BP are spending money in alternative energy development as well.


Hopefully, these results will be promising someday. One thing is for sure though: we cannot keep relying on oil!

A couple quick thoughts:
Concentrated sollar heat will disassociate even salt water into hydrogen and oxygen, another possibility for generation.
If hydrogen generation from biomass also generates CO2 then the production process will have to be combined with the CO2 collection and conversion process that is needed (and currently being developed) to remediate atmospheric CO2.

[Sternwallow]

Livingstrong wrote

I don't have a problem with that :D

Ah, naturally you wouldn't. I, on the other hand cannot walk the length of a mall without haviing to stop and recuperate. I can (thankfully) still drive. When I stay home instead of going out for the things I need, guess what, a big brown TRUCK brings them to me.

Cycling is great, but, for my money, it is a viable main transport medium only in rural, agrarian communities who happen to have good roads.

[Sternwallow]

calpurnpiso wrote

I think the BEST source of energy is the one that comes from our Creator, the SUN. Unfortunately Christ-psychosis immense drag on the intellect, has stagnated technology for over 1000 years. If it weren't for those retarded psychos, we wouldn't be talking about energy today. We would be sipping a special drink at our Valley Marineris colony while enjoying movies projected on our Eye-lids, due to the NIC ( Neuro Implanted Chip). Religious-psychosis would have been eradicated and humans wouldn't have this HIV of the brain eroding reason inducing INSANE IRRATIONAL THINKING. :)

You are probably right about the damage caused by religion enforced ignorance, but what we need is solutions for the situation today. We need better energy sources and better energy use and that includes both more efficient application of energy and efficient stotrage and transmission of energy all under the banner of safety and viable cost.

GaryM wrote

Agreed! Normal energy is so 19th century, kids today can't identify with James Prescott Joule! We need a new, alternative energy for the 21st century, with a cool new unit - I propose the Choob, where 1 Choob is the amount of energy needed to vaporise a 75 kg person with a death ray.

That's one serious unit! Megajoules, in fact.

[Choobus]

GaryM wrote

Agreed! Normal energy is so 19th century, kids today can't identify with James Prescott Joule! We need a new, alternative energy for the 21st century, with a cool new unit - I propose the Choob, where 1 Choob is the amount of energy needed to vaporise a 75 kg person with a death ray.

co-incidentally that is the same amount of energy that is required to read through the entire bible.

[Sternwallow]

Choobus wrote

co-incidentally that is the same amount of energy that is required to read through the entire bible.

Sadly you do not get that amount of energy back when you burn the Bible. The total energy recovery may be possible in the future by dropping the Bible from an orbit of about Moon radius, back to Earth. Mildly fictitious calculations show that there might even be an energy excess in that scenario. It would match nicely with the social benefit of the defunct Bible.

Sternwallow wrote

Ah, naturally you wouldn't. I, on the other hand cannot walk the length of a mall without haviing to stop and recuperate. I can (thankfully) still drive. When I stay home instead of going out for the things I need, guess what, a big brown TRUCK brings them to me.

Cycling is great, but, for my money, it is a viable main transport medium only in rural, agrarian communities who happen to have good roads.

If I lived close to you I would drive, ride a bike or what ever so you wouldn't have to feel that way and I would get the groceries for ya. I know you are a strong person Stern, but being sick sucks, no matter how tough we are sometimes being ill just....sucks. :heart:

[ubs]

Livingstrong wrote

If I lived close to you I would drive, ride a bike or what ever so you wouldn't have to feel that way and I would get the groceries for ya.

Me too.

The bad part about fuel getting super expensive will be the decrease in food output. That's going to make our travel worries look very small.