'Cross-Polination' may be the wrong term, but...

[Whisper]

So - I blogged about this a few days back and recieved some interesting replies. I wanted to see what people here would think (Theists in particular - I've seen there are one or two hanging around.)

Basically, I was privy to a conversation between a UK Baptist friend of mine (my bestfriend - we have 'words' about religion sometimes - maybe I'll talk about it here at some point) and one of her flatmates. They discussed some harrasment of a third flatmate.

The third flatmate was on the recieving end of a lot of things, but the one thing that apparently topped it all, was the sudden appearance of a Voodoo/Vodun doll on the floor outside her door (these are University Accodmodation Flats btw - imagine hotel corridors.)

Flatmate3 and her friends all went into hysterics, yelling and screaming and telling each other not to touch the doll because it could curse them.

My confusion over this is that all these girls were Christian; of varying types, of course, but all Christian nonetheless.

A Voodoo/Vodun doll is NOT Christian. It is an artifact of a completely other faith, a faith that is at odds with the Abrahamic faiths.

So why were they reacting in such a way? Why were they playing into the Voodoo/Vodun faith? (It is a tennet of some forms of the Voodoo/Vodun faith that you should not touch the doll, because to do so would be to set a curse upon oneself - I'm guessing the girls were at least partially aware of this.)

The things that came up in my blog were:

1. They enjoy the hysterics and were playing off each other
2. It's part of the 'magical thinking' needed to believe in a God in the first place, thus allowing them to also believe in the Voodoo/Vodun doll
3. Anything of another faith is inherently 'evil' in a vague and un-named sense - possibly riddled with 'demons' or 'the devil'


1. I could certainly understand that thinking - I've been party to shared hysterics before and can understand the appeal, even if I can't understand the reasons behind this particular case

2. This point just makes me wonder. To have even the slightest bit of belief in other faiths objects, that means they must - even unconsciously - believe that the other faith is just as valid as their own. And believing that, surely undermines their belief that their particular faith is the 'one and only'?

3. If that was the case - why were they treating it in the way that the Voodoo/Vodun faith requires? If it was just riddled with demons, or had the ability to call the devil down on them - surely they would treat it in the manner of their own faiths dictates, rather than yelling about the way in which a Voodoo/Vodun believer dictates it should be treated?

Thoughts? I'd especially like to hear from any Theist members here. Keeping in mind of course, that I have seen similar reactions from all sorts of Theists over all sorts of objects.

Voodoo is a combination of RCC and traditional African beliefs.

http://tinyurl.com/3osfux

Voodoo combines elements of Roman Catholicism and tribal religions of western Africa, particularly Benin. Voodoo cults worship a high god, Bon Dieu; ancestors or, more generally, the dead; twins; and spirits called Ioa. The Ioa, which may vary from cult to cult, are African tribal gods that are usually identified with Roman Catholic saints. The snake god, for example, is identified with St. Patrick. Other elements of Roman Catholicism in voodoo include the use of candles, bells, crosses, and prayers and the practices of baptism and making the sign of the cross. Among the African elements are dancing, drumming, and the worship of ancestors and twins.

I go with #2. If your friends accept one cult of irrational belief why wouldn't they be susceptible to another, even if only to fear it. Otherwise might there have to be a rational level of irrationality?

As for #3 I think we need a theist to answer. I find it hard to fear things that don't exist. Especially when there is so much to fear from people who believe in things that don't exist.

[Smellyoldgit]

Surely a severe dose of 'banging together of the heads', along with a cold shower and a yelling of 'stop being so fucking stupid' is called for.

Dress it up as you will - it's all still a load of baseless, made-up shite that the weak minded fall for time and time again.

No doubt our resident theists will dress it up in their usual convoluted claptrap, but bullshit and bollocks it remains.

[Whisper]

simpledon wrote

Voodoo is a combination of RCC and traditional African beliefs.

http://tinyurl.com/3osfux

I go with #2. If your friends accept one cult of irrational belief why wouldn't they be susceptible to another, even if only to fear it. Otherwise might there have to be a rational level of irrationality?

As for #3 I think we need a theist to answer. I find it hard to fear things that don't exist. Especially when there is so much to fear from people who believe in things that don't exist.

Ah thankyou - I have researched Voodoo, but none of the sites I came across mentioned that it had such strong tie-ins with Catholicism.

(One thing - not my friends - even in the slightest - these girls were all about 18 or 19 and in their first year of univeristy. From what I heard, when not squealing about dolls, they were partying until stupid o'clock in the morning or talking about boys/makeup. Ugh.)

The thing about #2 that confuses me, is that, if they really do fear these other beliefs - why do they not recognise the fact that to do so, undermines they're professed belief? To show belief (even out of fear) for another faith's object, is the surest way to point out that all faiths are valid - and then what's to stop them realising that if all faiths are valid, surely NONE is vaild also?

[Whisper]

Smellyoldgit wrote

Surely a severe dose of 'banging together of the heads', along with a cold shower and a yelling of 'stop being so fucking stupid' is called for.

Dress it up as you will - it's all still a load of baseless, made-up shite that the weak minded fall for time and time again.

No doubt our resident theists will dress it up in their usual convoluted claptrap, but bullshit and bollocks it remains.

I truly wanted to bang their heads together actually - especially when bestfriend mentioned that she 'fears' these things as well - even slightly.

Even after explaining things to her, she still refuses to shirk off the belief that a voodoo doll, or a ouija board can cause harm.

(And the oujia board thing really gets on my nerves - however much 'psychics' proclaim the things able to contact the dead, or theists proclaim them suceptable to demons - ouija boards were designed as table-top party-games in the late 1800's. Explaining such to bestfriend has so far proved fruitless.)

[calpurnpiso]

Whisper wrote:

"A Voodoo/Vodun doll is NOT Christian. It is an artifact of a completely other faith, a faith that is at odds with the Abrahamic faiths. "

As you probably have realized by now I've provide evidence that suggest religious beliefs are a form of delusions inducing disorder similar to schizophrenia or temporal lobe epilepsy after all....

1) All religious beliefs are created in the brain.

2) At the center of all religious beliefs stands an imaginary dopamine producing friend.

3) This delusion inducing disorder which I call Religious-Psychosis has nothing to do with the intelligence of the infected, though there are savants with this problem.

4) A clear example of this are Christ-psychotics Francis Collins director of the genom project and Behe.
If a person is infected with the superstitious beliefs of one religion, the superstitious deluded beliefs of any other religion are also accepted as true. This produces intolerance of the others inducing hate and deluded freight.

Here is an experiment for you. What would happen if you take an image of Jesus, painting it green wrapping its waist with a note where unusual symbols are written, featuring a moist salt spot placing it at the flat of the person suspected of putting the voodoo dolls?

Wait and see what happens. This image will eat at the person infected with voodoo-psychosis and will screw up her axons communication. She'll have awful dreams about who could have place the damning green Jesus at her flat. It'll be funny to watch. It is amazing what the brain can do manipulating the delusions produced by religious-psychosis infected retards.

Supernaturalists (theists and similar scum) will proscribe to anything which claims to challenge a rational, natural understanding of the universe. The worst of the worst are "spiritual" people who will basically pick and choose from all different religions and make a huge bullshit stew to feed their unwilling victims.

Perhaps you should explain, that in the Voodoo faith the dolls are used for healing.

[nkb]

I think it's #3.
Just like some Christians call anything that goes against their beliefs (including atheism) a tool of the devil, anything that dabbles in the occult or weird religions is considered to be something related to Satan.

[Erik]

I think it's #2. I recall at a young age being nearly seduced by the von Daeniken crap about UFO's, and remember feeling that I really wanted some of this stuff to be true, because magic was more interesting than stark reality. But I can't quite put my finger on why human beings would want have this desire. Is it because survival is hard, so hoping in magic helps you get through the worry of where the next meal and water are coming from?

Clearly, part of what I wanted was something to shake up the humdrum of daily life, as if by accepting the possibility of these things, it was like saying to the adults around me: "You all think you're so smart and control everything. Well, you don't."