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Old 01-13-2018, 12:11 AM   #2866
Andrew66
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l.

I submit that humanist ethcis supercede religious ones because they are not enforced by a carrot and a stick but based on empathy and social conscience.
I think you spelled ethics incorrectly.

My challenge to your statement is...

For the most part (for most ethics) a Christian can also be a Humanist (i.e. there is no reason a Christian can also base his/her actions by empathy and social conscience) - but the "Christian" type Humanist is even more inclined to do so consistently because of the carrot and stick as you mentioned.

The converse is not true - assuming the Humanist is an Atheist (probably what you were implying), Humanist on a bad day can choose to be an asshole, without sequale.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:18 AM   #2867
hertz vanrental
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I think you spelled ethics incorrectly.
Learn the difference between a typo and grammar. Maybe you should finish up high school - then you can learn all about the difference, weird twat.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:26 AM   #2868
hertz vanrental
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I think you spelled ethics incorrectly.

My challenge to your statement is...
utterly pointless. You are a low-IQ, illiterate twat and a christard to boot. In short, boy, you are a failure of the first water.

You are also a fuckin' weirdo.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:18 AM   #2869
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Andrew66 wrote View Post
I think you spelled ethics incorrectly.

My challenge to your statement is...

For the most part (for most ethics) a Christian can also be a Humanist (i.e. there is no reason a Christian can also base his/her actions by empathy and social conscience) - but the "Christian" type Humanist is even more inclined to do so consistently because of the carrot and stick as you mentioned.

The converse is not true - assuming the Humanist is an Atheist (probably what you were implying), Humanist on a bad day can choose to be an asshole, without sequale.
On the contrary, any human (Humanist or otherwise) who does not suffer from some form of profound mental or social impairment is also an innate consequentialist therefore sequelae abound for anyone with even basic empathy and a social conscience.

I'm sure christers have their bad days and fuck me can they be real assholes too. The main difference I see here is that they might ask their imaginary friend for forgiveness +/- the person that was wronged whereas a non-religious human being with empathy and a social conscience is likely to seek forgiveness only in the real world from the person who was wronged.

Your response seems like a slimy way of trying really hard to say that "oh yes, we're just like you, only better," but it also makes it seem as though you have a less than adequate knowledge of human beings, their psychology and how we act socially. Functional human / societal ethics existed long before your religion and are part of what got us all here as a species yet religions seem all too happy to gloss over this and claim some sort of supremacy.
Your view seems to be one that has somehow forgotten these aspects of our humanity and tried to bolt an extra bit on that you think is more important.

Invisibility and nothingness look an awful lot alike.

Last edited by The Judge; 01-13-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #2870
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Christian charities (run by churches in part) are the leading source of funding and resources for the poor. At least that was referenced by a Christian spokesperson being interviewed on CNN. Assuming CNN is not entirely fake news, I trust the source.
Yes and my secretary told me, and I have also read that Catholic Charities gives one of the larges sums of money to charity in the world. No link but I've read it before.

Obviously, when you give money to the Church not only for upkeep you are helping fund the charities the Church is involved with.

JJ
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:32 AM   #2871
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Yes and my secretary told me, and I have also read that Catholic Charities gives one of the larges sums of money to charity in the world. No link but I've read it before.

Obviously, when you give money to the Church not only for upkeep you are helping fund the charities the Church is involved with.

JJ
christards do collect money. Although most goes to swell the already overly-stuffed coffers of the fat cats at the top of the christard food chain, some does find it's way to support good causes. This has two functions:

1. It makes it appear that ALL of the donated money goes to good causes which, of course, it doesn't. In this way, the government doesn't investigate how little money actually gets donated to good causes by the crutch.

2. It creates a smoke screen for all the paedophillic behaviour carried out by the church. After all, people who support good causes would never get involved in paedophyllic behaviour, would they. And, they would certainly never protect a paedophile and cover up paedophyllic behaviour. Oh no siree. A christard church would never do that.

It's true that the cat licker crutch does give money to charity. It's the richest entity on the planet, ffs. It makes Bill Gates look like a pauper.

Does it not say somewhere in the babble that it's harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle? If that's the case, the christard fat cats will all be going to hell in a hand basket.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:36 AM   #2872
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Yes and my secretary told me, and I have also read that Catholic Charities gives one of the larges sums of money to charity in the world. No link but I've read it before.

Obviously, when you give money to the Church not only for upkeep you are helping fund the charities the Church is involved with.

JJ
To paraphrase your friend; christian churches (run by deeply disturbed perverts in part) are a leading source of abuse of children and young adults worldwide. At least that was referenced by innumerable news stories, judicial inquiries and public apologies over many decades. I trust many of these sources.

There is only so much harm that can be meaningfully countered by your claims of charity and I would suggest that little to none of it counts against this level of abhorrent depravity and frank evil.

Invisibility and nothingness look an awful lot alike.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #2873
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JerryJohn wrote View Post
Yes and my secretary told me, and I have also read that Catholic Charities gives one of the larges sums of money to charity in the world. No link but I've read it before.

Obviously, when you give money to the Church not only for upkeep you are helping fund the charities the Church is involved with.

JJ
You, a high school kid with a secretary?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #2874
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Yes and my secretary told me, and I have also read that Catholic Charities gives one of the larges sums of money to charity in the world. No link but I've read it before.

Obviously, when you give money to the Church not only for upkeep you are helping fund the charities the Church is involved with.

JJ
jerrypong

All joking apart, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I expect this low-level shit off that stupid twat android but I expect better of you.

The above comment was so easy to trash, it was ridiculous. jeebus, even you could have trashed it with ease and comfort. Come on, jerrypong, step up to the mark properly. Let's get some high-quality shit from you. Come on, man, this is child's play.

Now, get a grip and get that mind of yours back on course.

You are disappointing me and, you know what, this isn't you.

You OK?

Seriously, you OK?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:22 AM   #2875
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On the contrary, any human (Humanist or otherwise) who does not suffer from some form of profound mental or social impairment is also an innate consequentialist therefore sequelae abound for anyone with even basic empathy and a social conscience.

whereas a non-religious human being with empathy and a social conscience is likely to seek forgiveness only in the real world from the person who was wronged.

Your response seems like a slimy way of trying really hard to say that "oh yes, we're just like you, only better," .
.
From your reply I still don't see how an Atheist Humanist has a one up ethically on a Religious Humanist?

Religious folk can also be "innate consequentialists."

Religious folk can also apologize and make amends to the person wronged (and not just to God).

Do you have any proof or evidence that religious folk are less likely to apologize and make amends to those he / she has wronged on earth, vs. an Atheist humanist?. I know you didn't explicitly make this claim, but that is nonetheless clearly what you are implying.

Or are you just talking out of your ass?
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:40 PM   #2876
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Amen brother!
We wish.

thank goodness he's on our side
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:30 PM   #2877
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To paraphrase your friend; christian churches (run by deeply disturbed perverts in part) are a leading source of abuse of children and young adults worldwide. At least that was referenced by innumerable news stories, judicial inquiries and public apologies over many decades. I trust many of these sources.

There is only so much harm that can be meaningfully countered by your claims of charity and I would suggest that little to none of it counts against this level of abhorrent depravity and frank evil.
Judge,

It is a complete and utter over exaggeration that Christian church are run by deeply disturbed perverts and abusing children higher rate than the regular population at large. Look at the recent scandals with the Olympic gymnast physician that sexually abused children, teachers, football coaches etc.

Most of what I've read has stated that most all children abused are sexually molested by dear old Dad or a single mom living with a live-in non biological Dad but boyfriend. The stats I've read reveal in a supposed confidential survey 50% of these mothers knew and did nothing either because they were sexually abused themselves or felt they couldn't leave due to various reasons including financial, fear and some even blamed their daughters for
seducing their husband, live in boyfriend etc.

You also have to look at the history of thought on curing sexual abuse. In the 80's the medical community at large thought pedophilia could be treated by desensitizing mostly men of course to kiddie porn. They would actually put electrodes on a man's penis show them kiddie porn and if their penis didn't get erect they would considered "cured." That's when my wife went to nursing school.

It didn't matter who it was, dear ole dad who is rarely reported, Clergy, teachers, coaches etc deemed "cured" and "ready to go back to society at large." Pedophiles find jobs where children are accessible. This is all pedophiles especially pastors/and priests. What the hell there is a high level of trust that is given to these persons in higher positions such as teachers, clergy, coaches etc.

It was after the recidivism rate was noted among these supposedly cured pedophiles that it was deemed nearly incurable. I haven't read the latest DSM for psychiatry to read what they think about this issue but I might look it up at some point when I have more time.

Thus it's not just a clergy issues, but clergy are held to a higher standard and the Bible is clear about this issue.

Matthew 18: 6 NIV:

New International Version

  • "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Clergy will be held to a higher standard that non clergy due to their position. Woe to them.

This is where atheism falls short. If there is no God what final justice is there for these very sick individual who molest children? They just die period.
No way Judge.

I understand your loss of faith seems to be based on all the suffering you've seen, but where sin abound grace abounds all the more.

I am interested in a few other comments you've posted and hope to respond to them when I am not quite so busy.

"Only a fool believes there is no God" compliments of the Bible which you disparage sadly.

Where sin abounds grace abounds all the more, Judge. Romans.

JJ
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:17 AM   #2878
hertz vanrental
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Judge,

It is a complete and utter over exaggeration that Christian church are run by deeply disturbed perverts and abusing children higher rate than the regular population at large.
Look jerrypong, I asked you to step up. I didn't ask you for shit like this.
The crutch is there to support the community not rape it. It claims to be about peace, love etc., Not about rape.

You are right, paedophillia does happen in other sectors of the community.
What is unique about the crutch is that it covers it up. That, in this country, in itself, is a crime. I know of no institution that does that.

Now, you know that. So, why this lame rebuttal?

You are better than this.

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JerryJohn wrote View Post
Look at the recent scandals with the Olympic gymnast physician that sexually abused children, teachers, football coaches etc.

Most of what I've read has stated that most all children abused are sexually molested by dear old Dad or a single mom living with a live-in non biological Dad but boyfriend. The stats I've read reveal in a supposed confidential survey 50% of these mothers knew and did nothing either because they were sexually abused themselves or felt they couldn't leave due to various reasons including financial, fear and some even blamed their daughters for
seducing their husband, live in boyfriend etc.
These cases are about individuals and institutions who don't profess peace and love a la the church.

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JerryJohn wrote View Post
but clergy are held to a higher standard and the Bible is clear about this issue.

Matthew 18: 6 NIV:

New International Version

  • "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Clergy will be held to a higher standard that non clergy due to their position. Woe to them.
seducing their husband, live in boyfriend etc.
clergy claim to be better. Society now knows that not to be true. The truth is now out.

Personally, I wouldn't want clergy to be held to higher standards. They wouldn't meet them anyway but that's not the point. In the past, the church protected their paedophiles. That's what's different. Paedophillia in the crutch is institutionalised. I don't want clergy held to higher standards BUT, I want them to be held to account - not protected and hidden away by the crutch.


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JerryJohn wrote View Post
This is where atheism falls short. If there is no God what final justice is there for these very sick individual who molest children? They just die period.
No way.
No jerrypong. This is where reality falls short.

You want a god to hold a person to account after they die? Is that the reason why you invent god? Is there something lurking here that we need to know about?

If a person isn't caught in this life, then they won't be caught in the next one because there isn't one.

WAY
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:54 AM   #2879
hertz vanrental
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Jerypong

I think we both know that you don't have a wife nor a secretary so, please, cut that shit out.

However, that's minor. I doubt god will send you to hell just for those lies.

How do you feel your pretend god will react when, he sees your sorry ass, for giving us poor sinning atheists all of this agro? Didn't his pretend son, zombie boy, say 'turn the other cheek'?
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:23 AM   #2880
JerryJohn
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Look jerrypong, I asked you to step up. I didn't ask you for shit like this.
The crutch is there to support the community not rape it. It claims to be about peace, love etc., Not about rape.

You are right, paedophillia does happen in other sectors of the community.
What is unique about the crutch is that it covers it up. That, in this country, in itself, is a crime. I know of no institution that does that.

Now, you know that. So, why this lame rebuttal?

You are better than this.



These cases are about individuals and institutions who don't profess peace and love a la the church.



clergy claim to be better. Society now knows that not to be true. The truth is now out.

Personally, I wouldn't want clergy to be held to higher standards. They wouldn't meet them anyway but that's not the point. In the past, the church protected their paedophiles. That's what's different. Paedophillia in the crutch is institutionalised. I don't want clergy held to higher standards BUT, I want them to be held to account - not protected and hidden away by the crutch.




No jerrypong. This is where reality falls short.

You want a god to hold a person to account after they die? Is that the reason why you invent god? Is there something lurking here that we need to know about?

If a person isn't caught in this life, then they won't be caught in the next one because there isn't one.

WAY
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hertz vanrental wrote View Post
Jerypong

I think we both know that you don't have a wife nor a secretary so, please, cut that shit out.

However, that's minor. I doubt god will send you to hell just for those lies.

How do you feel your pretend god will react when, he sees your sorry ass, for giving us poor sinning atheists all of this agro? Didn't his pretend son, zombie boy, say 'turn the other cheek'?
Hertzy,

I agree with many of the statements you've made so now you know you are getting closer to reality and the truth,

"Clergy claim to be better" is simply not true. Clergy don't claim to be better for we have ALL sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. (Romans) That includes clergy.

Thus you can't expect clergy to be "better" because they are simply not. They sin and that includes raping and molesting children. I completely agree they should be held accountable and prosecuted like Joe Blow regular non clergy citizens. It is a disgrace that Churches covered it up.

I know from several Catholics that many people left the Catholic Church for the massive cover up and widespread problem of pedophilia issues and I am sure it happens in all Churches, much of it swept under the rug so no one knows. The bigger the money pockets of the Church the more likely they are to be sued. Also given the nature of their hierarchy you can sue not only the Church but also the diocese, the Vatican etc.

My baptist Church is independent in nature so you sue only the Church there is no "upper" level to sue as well. Plus the Baptist parishes with which I am most familiar demand a fair trial for the safety of innocent clergy and these 60 year old claims are hard to prove. Unfortunately, Hertzy, there are also false claims for money hungry mongrels trying to make a quick buck, usually suing the larger Church with a structure that allows more levels to sue.

ANYONE raping and molesting kids is in serious trouble hopefully with the law from an atheist position and from a Christian position will answer to God for their behavior in addition to any prosecution on a secular level. The problem is Hertzy, is that pedophilia is difficult to prosecute because people don't want their kids to have to be involved in testifying in some fashion in court because
1: It's a horrifying stress for kids and
2: Kids can make poor witnesses by being confused, not very vocal etc.
Check in with a prosecutor for more info regarding this.

Society is getting "fucked over" because they plead these child abuse charges down to appease parents and they are difficult to prove because there often are no witness just a child's account to an adult. Often these guys scare kids to death and tell them they will kill their parents etc, if they tell. Sick, cunning son of a bitches. If I had my way I'd be happy to volunteer to shoot their balls off but that would
A Land me in jail and I prefer not to be there and get raped in the ass and all the loss of freedom etc
B: and not be what is in keeping in with God would like us to do.

Even if pedophiles are prosecuted they often get a kick in the ass and slap on the hand and are not put in prison and if so for a short period of time. Hell,
Hertzy, just look up the number of registered sex offenders in any area walking around free on some worthless sex offender registry.

It's not just a Church problem, it's a society problem as well. Pull your head out of your ass, you should be able to discern that yourself.

Your comment that you know of no other institution that "does that"( Cover up child abuse) is plain ignorant of the facts. School Districts have done it and what about Penn State and their cover up for Sandusky the serial rapist? Perhaps you don't consider School Districts and Universities/colleges institutions?

YOU may not want clergy to be held to higher standards but it's clear from the Bible they will be, and no Christian cares want YOU want, Hertzy. We don't give a rat's ass because you are not God although you sure seem to think you have all the answers. That's delusional. Step it up a Notch, Herzy with your logic skills.

James 3:1 NIV

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."

People WILL be judged after their death, the Bible is clear on that. If you have read the Bible, read it again and see for yourself.

Matthew/ NIV

"But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment"

You can whine, bitch, moan and complain about the Church all you want and you do it well, bitch and complain,) but God told us in his Holy Word...

Matthew 16:18 NIV

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it."

When you are dead Hertzy you too will be held accountable for what you've done. You may be too ignorant to see that fact but it is true.

Hertzy,

Read all my posts at least 3x, and memorize the Bible verses so you can learn more and become more intelligent.

God loves my posts because he said to preach the Gospel to every nation which I have done in many posts specifically. He is very pleased with me teaching you about him.

Jesus will say,

"JJ, well done good and faithful servant" and I will be sent to heaven. Where you end up Hertzy is your decision; make the right one.

JJ

Speaking of institutions are you in one currently, such as a mental institution?
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