"I've had my prayers answered"

Theists often claim to know that their prayers have been answered (for example see Lily's post in the "Bad Guy" thread). I wonder, how can you determine if your prayer has indeed been "answered." How do you know that some sort of entity made what was prayed for a reality?

Easy: something you wanted happened.
And if it doesn't, then God has a plan.
Astoundingly enough, the probability that God's plan/prayer results in an event happening exactly as often as it would have normally. Funny, huh?

[anthonyjfuchs]

As I said in the "Bad Guy" thread:

Lily has had her prayers answered in exactly the same way that I've really wanted something to happen and seen it happen. Claiming that one has "had prayers answered" is an astonishingly blatant case of flaunting beneficial coincidences while dismissing detrimental coincidences:

* The thing I prayed for happened (beneficial coincidence)? God answered my prayer (flaunt the coincidence).
* The thing I prayed for didn't happen (detrimental coincidence)? It wasn't in God's plan (dismiss the coincidence).

Of course, the reality is that if one exerts some effort toward an end, rather than wasting time praying, one will affect that outcome far more effectively. Because even if an omnipotent, omniscience being exists, prayer can never work:

In the New Bern Sun Journal, I wrote

Presumably, those who pray assume that their prayers are being received by some sort of supernatural entity that they believe to be both omnipotent and omniscient. The nature of omniscience, however, contradicts the purpose of prayer, since any omniscient entity would have known everything that would ever happen since the beginning of time.

It would know every word, every action, and every thought. So if an event happens, that entity created it, and not only knew about it long before it actually happened, but knew how humans would react to it. All of human history is set and determined if an omniscient entity exists. Nothing can be changed, because to do so would negate that entity’s perfect foreknowledge.

So even an allegedly omnipotent entity cannot do everything; it can only do what it already knows will happen. An omniscient entity cannot, therefore, be omnipotent.

That same entity also knew in advance that humans would pray about a particular situation. Yet knowing long beforehand that humans would want the situation changed, that entity created the event as is. That entity did not see enough merit in those prayers to change the event before they were uttered; if it had, it would not have created the event in the first place. And an omniscient entity cannot advise humans to do anything but what it already knows they will do. If that entity advised a different course of action than what it knew, then it would contradict its own omniscience.

In either event, the effects of praying are identical to the effects of not praying.

[calpurnpiso]

anthonyjfuchs wrote

As I said in the "Bad Guy" thread:

Lily has had her prayers answered in exactly the same way that I've really wanted something to happen and seen it happen. Claiming that one has "had prayers answered" is an astonishingly blatant case of flaunting beneficial coincidences while dismissing detrimental coincidences:

* The thing I prayed for happened (beneficial coincidence)? God answered my prayer (flaunt the coincidence).
* The thing I prayed for didn't happen (detrimental coincidence)? It wasn't in God's plan (dismiss the coincidence).

Of course, the reality is that if one exerts some effort toward an end, rather than wasting time praying, one will affect that outcome far more effectively. Because even if an omnipotent, omniscience being exists, prayer can never work:

Regardless of how many times A christian prays he/she will not survive my JET. A test Lily loves to ignore..

Obviously I agree with you AJF. I just want to see what theists can provide in the way of evidence. Do I expect valid evidence? No. But I am curious to see theists' (lack of) reasoning on this.

[Irreligious]

Metman07 wrote

Obviously I agree with you AJF. I just want to see what theists can provide in the way of evidence. Do I expect valid evidence? No. But I am curious to see theists' (lack of) reasoning on this.

Metman, by now, you and I both know that theists never, I mean nevah! EVAH! present evidence for any of their fantastical claims. They merely assert, because many are very assertive that way.

And please don't ask them to explain. It only makes them more assertive.

[Kate]

[Irreligious]

Amazing.

How do you do it?

Wait. I don't wanna know.

I prefer to believe it's a miracle.

That'll help me understand it better.

[Kate]

Umm, let's try a laying of hands...



Feel the power mooving within?

[Eva]

wow, irre....you are so...so...assertive tonight......

[Irreligious]

Eva wrote

wow, irre....you are so...so...assertive tonight......

How so?

After all this time, I still can't get the smilie coding right. The first time, that is.

[ghoulslime]

calpurnpiso wrote

Regardless of how many times A christian prays he/she will not survive my JET. A test Lily loves to ignore..

[Kate]

[Kamikaze189]

Another thing to add into the equation is that people often remember hits but forget misses.

[Eva]

Irreligious wrote

How so?

After all this time, I still can't get the smilie coding right. The first time, that is.

well, dahlin', all that assertin'....but, unlike the lilycow, you make sense...