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Old 06-04-2007, 07:38 PM   #436
anthonyjfuchs
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Lily wrote
you, like so many here, have created a caricature of an "evil" fundy and believe it to be true.
You mean this guy? Cause we sure as shit didn't create him, and he certainly exists.

We don't propose that all Jesus-junkies are seething fundies; the seething fundies are certainly the most dangerous, and the ones who need to be dealt with sooner than later. The real problem is that, when someone calls themselves a "Christian," in reality, that could mean anything. There is no standard body of belief beyond "some chap was the sonnagod and got hisself nailed to a cross to pay fer our sins." It's not the fault of the nonbeliever for having one thing in mind when they hear "Christian"; it's the fault of individual Christers for believing whatever the hell they want. Because if a certain group is going to call itself "Christians," then it's not asking too much that they have a certain commonality of belief. Otherwise, they're not all the same cult.

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Lily wrote
Well it is the raving atheists, as I have been told repeatedly. I just don't accept that as an excuse.
That's sort of like walking into "T&A Gentleman's Club" and getting pissed off when you see a pair of boobs, is it not?

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Lily wrote
The creation story, Noah et al. is pure mythology.
Certainly. And Jewish mythology at that.

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Lily wrote
I haven't concerned myself quite as much with the NT, mostly because I find the challenges to its historicity so silly.
So you finally have some kind of documentation that supports your assertion that the collected legends of your "New Testament" are in any way a reflection of factual history? Don't be stingy: share with the class.

The challenges to the historicity of your little storybook would be silly if:
1. archaeological evidence supported your fables.
2. your stories were written by actual historians.
3. any actual historians corroborated any of the events in your fables.
4. any of your fables were written during the events that they portray.
5. your fables did not claim that supernatural events had occurred.

But you apparently have no trouble accepting myths lacking in those areas of evidence. When the anonymous authors of certain texts claim to have been inspired by a supernatural agent, you simply take their word for it. Yet when pressed, you demand that questioning the texts is "silly." Apparently, that's fine for you; your standards are so low (in regards to the particular set of myths that you already believe, anyway) that you just accept what you're told without question (didn't your dearly departed Falwell once say that Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no question?). But you have to understand that some of us -- about 1.1 billion, in fact -- aren't going to simply take your word for it, nor the word of a handful of anonymous pre-scientific writers.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:58 PM   #437
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wow. You guys are more patient than Jesus.

You can always turn tricks for a few extra bucks. If looks are an issue, there's the glory hole option, but don't expect more than ... tips.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:00 PM   #438
anthonyjfuchs
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I'm only more patient and civil now because I've demanded that Lily not answer or address me in any way. Knowing that I won't have to deal directly with her brand of stupid anymore lightens my heart considerably.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:35 PM   #439
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oh tony, puh-leeze....you are loving all of this, admit it....
and you know, in your sacrilegious heart of hearts, that she will not ignore you. no matter how much you insist-nay, DEMAND that she do that....

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:54 PM   #440
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godless wrote
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Lily wrote
I can't believe I even bothered to respond to you this one time.
I can't believe that you have found something that you can't believe.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

angels, giants, (the offspring of naughty lustful angels & scarlet hussies), unicorns, talking serpents that never use to eat dust & crawl on their bellies, dragons, Noah's ark filled with two of every species on the earth, Creationism- (5 days spent creating the Earth, oh & the sixth day creating the other 99.99R%, walking on water, the refusal of any Egyptian historian to record the happenings of Exodus, the refusal of any credible scholar to record Jesus despite his multitude of miracles- A conspiracy I tell ya. The absence is proof of a cover up.! God sacrificing himself to himself for us. Jesus- Fully God, Fully Man. The 'failed' annihalation of various tribes by Moses & his armies as God apparently forgot that the women they were directed to rape, & permitted to force marry would pass down the despised DNA of the tribe they were meant to be erasing from the face of the earth

What's not to believe:wall::wall::wall: Faith, faith I tell ya, just stop thinking people & listen to the crazy voice in your head...........& believe........& the Kingdom of Heaven will be yours, just as the Pope promised to all those brave crusaders who raped, pillaged & murdered thru the Christian crusades.
It is all due to this type of schizophrenia I refer to as Christ-psychosis. Lily is our resident christ-psychosis infected masochistic buffoon, just simply ignore her for her posts are pathetic filled with falsehoods due to her affliction. Fuchs is her worst nightmare...:lol::lol:.... We are still wondering why is she here having such distorted perception of reality. Welcome to the forum.:cheers:

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:01 PM   #441
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Eva wrote
oh tony, puh-leeze....you are loving all of this, admit it....
Well yeah :D

Imagine you're wandering down a hallway lined with doors. And each door is marked with a sign. One reads "ANAL RAPE." Do you enter? Well, if you enjoy being anally raped, you might; if you do not enjoy being anally raped, you certainly would not. You would walk on by. Perhaps the next door reads "EYE GOUGING." Do you enter? Well, if you enjoy having your eyes gouged, you might; if you do not enjoy having your eyes gouged, you certainly would not. You would walk on by.

Instead, let's say that one of the doors is marked "ISLAM." Do you enter? Well, if you believe that a chap named Muhammed wrote the divinely-inspired words of Allah in the Qur'an some 1,400 years ago, you might; if you do not believe in Muhammed's credibility, you likely would not. You would walk on by. Perhaps the next door reads "CHRISTIANITY." Do you enter? Well, if you believe that a handful of anonymous authors wrote the divinely-inspired tale of a chap named Jesus some 2,000 years ago, you might; if you do not believe these nameless gents' credibility, you likely would not.

Now, let's say that you DO believe in the credibility of those nameless writers. And let's say that the next door you encounter reads "ATHEISM." Do you enter?

The moral of the story: don't go into the rape room if you don't want a cock in your ass.

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Eva wrote
and you know, in your sacrilegious heart of hearts, that she will not ignore you. no matter how much you insist-nay, DEMAND that she do that....
You are likely correct. Honestly, though she insists otherwise, I really don't care if she answers me at all. Pointing out her absurd ignorance with vulgar elegance is reward enough for me.

Because, after all, according to her, she's right. She's not here to engage in civil discourse or the free exchange of ideas. She's here because we're ignorant heathens and she is going to cure us of our arrogance. There's nothing she hates more than confident nonbelievers who are forward and vocal about their skepticism. She wants to convert us to be sure, but whether or not we buy her particular brand of mythology, she really just wants to put us in our place and teach us a little humility. She demands respect for her beliefs.

And therein lies the rub. Because we're not going to be respect her for her superstitions. We've no need to be humble before her or her collection of fables.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:18 PM   #442
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well, yeah. we are rude because we speak up. we would be so much nicer if we just shut up. she is so nice! you see, she even has atheist friends! and gay friends! and even, maybe, friends at all! she is so understanding....she loves the sinner, not the sin....

d'oh. i need a bovine steak. bloody medium rare.

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:22 PM   #443
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Eva wrote
i need a bovine steak. bloody medium rare.
I'm working on that for ya. But Lily is avoiding me because she fears that if she engages me in a verbal altercation, I'll draw blood. Apparently, I really do wield a barbed-tongue.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:33 PM   #444
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Eva wrote
she even has atheist friends! and gay friends! and even, maybe, friends at all! she is so understanding....she loves the sinner, not the sin....
Are you talking about "she, Lily" or "she, Jesus" ?......I'm confussed...

Like Choobus says: "I kid, because I love" :heart:
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:45 AM   #445
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Lily wrote
The problem is, you, like so many here, have created a caricature of an "evil" fundy and believe it to be true. Thus it is virtually impossible to create a middle ground where issues can be discussed.
The problem with you is that you are speaking with the benefit of hundreds of years of SECULAR science, education & western cultural & moral progess that has come DESPITE religion not because of it. You can coldy shrug off literal interpretations of passages, citing them as obviously poetic, midrash, symbolic, creative, metaphorical etc. as modern understanding requires all but the 'most compartmentalised thinkers' to distance themselves from literal interpretations of the more ludicrous passages.

It is not the fundies that are evil it is the bible. The bible's commanding of rape, torture, murder, genocide, permission of slavery, & promotion of intolerance against unbelievers, believers of other faiths, Jews, & homosexuals; & of course promotion of misogony.

The only thing I find more unbelievable than the bible is the pathetic 'stretch of the imagination' apologetics. If you choose to worship a complete bastard of a god, at least have the courage to admit that at least by his own accounts he is a bastard.

Such pity, that the crusaders didn't have your intellect & reading to reject the Pope's call to war. I'm sure you would have been smarter in the 10th & 11th century than they were despite none of your current education you love to lord over me & others.

You claim not to be sympathetic towards fundamentalism, yet I remember reading one of your posts many months ago that you were seriously looking at the Catholic church, the church responsible for more human misery, atrocities & deaths than any other.

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Lily wrote
I and other "theists" have spoken many times about the (non) issues you raise.
They are all issues. Maybe not for someone as enlightened as you. After all the crusaders weren't real Christians like you, despite the fact many sold their lands, & even borrowed money to heed the Pope's call to battle, despite the fact that they risked & indeed mostly gave their lives. Likewise the adoption of Sharia Law cannot be blamed on the bible, nor the hatred of the Jews, nor the killing of witches. I mean if someone is stupid enough to read, 'Do not suffer a witch to live' literally, instead of it's obvious meaning, 'love one another' what can you do.

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Lily wrote
"The creation story, Noah et al. is pure mythology. The Church has always known that--and we have proved this by citing the relevant sources over and over again. I did so again, in this very thread."
& yet we have a $27 million dollar creation museum built in Kansas, & hundred of more millions of dollars spent fighting 'evolution theory'. You tacitly & directly support these imbeciles by calling yourself a Christian, just as you tacitly & directly support the deaths of millions in Africa & third world nations where the Catholic church preaches against condoms, by indentifying yourself as a Catholic if you have in fact made this choice.

Do not delude yourself that your moderate 'middle ground' approach is not harming society. You are no different than the moderate muslims who form the community from which the jihadists spring.

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Lily wrote
I haven't concerned myself quite as much with the NT, mostly because I find the challenges to its historicity so silly.
Agreed, the fact that it was such a short time ago, the meticulous record keeping of the Romans, the proximity to the great library of Alexandria & the scholars & historians who frequented it, it would be impossible for the stories & miracles contained in the NT not to be picked up on by a dozen or more historians. This was the news story of the millennia. The fact that not one reputable historian wrote about Jesus, we obviously can conclude that the entire NT is just jewish midrash as is the OT. Vile, intolerant, racist, homophobic, genocidal, misognystic, evil rubbish.

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Lily wrote
Or, you can develop a more sophisticated grasp of what we really believe. That doesn't mean that you will change your mind and suddenly become a "theist". It will merely enable you to talk meaningfully about and to us.
I doubt you could find two Christians who believed the same things Lily, that is from different denominations anyway. Besided I'm not so much concerned with what various theists believe as what your vile text ACTUALLY states.

I can talk more 'meaningfully' to most of the sheeple about religion than they can, as I was once a sheep, & even then read & understood more than the majority. My mind was 'changed' when I became a theist, I developed OCD's, superstitions, suffered low self esteem, & other psychological problems, as a direct result of believing is something I couldn't see, feel, hear, touch, smell. Please don't wish such state upon me again, I am now mentally healthy & wish to say that way. I can only hope the same for you Lily.:| It's not too late, it never will be, while your body holds breath

\"When you believe in things that you don\'t understand, then you suffer.
Superstition aint the way.\"- Stevie Wonder \'Superstition\'
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:07 AM   #446
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A recent (non) issue from today for you Lily.

A woman and three men were shot dead in a public execution in a Pakistani village after tribal elders found them guilty of adultery

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6721713.stm

Now let's see in Christian apologetics:

1. Argument from outrage- case dismissed.
2. As Muslims they won't accept the 'New Covenant' dogma you ascribe too- case dismissed.

It's a shame they're dead I suppose, but you can't blame the bible or the koran, it's the dumb followers who can't interpret them properly. One is almost tempted to think it would be better if these books were never written considering the tens of millions of deaths that can be attributed to them. :(

\"When you believe in things that you don\'t understand, then you suffer.
Superstition aint the way.\"- Stevie Wonder \'Superstition\'
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:24 AM   #447
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The problem with you...while your body holds breath
:bow:
:cheers:
:thumbsup:

Very well put! Thanks, godless!

Reality is not a belief. We do not take it on faith, it confirms itself whenever we see physics, chemistry, biology etc. working as predicted by their various empirically obtained rules. - Sternwallow
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:31 AM   #448
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anthonyjfuchs wrote
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Eva wrote
i need a bovine steak. bloody medium rare.
I'm working on that for ya. But Lily is avoiding me because she fears that if she engages me in a verbal altercation, I'll draw blood. Apparently, I really do wield a barbed-tongue.
but of course she is afraid, and rightly so....but it's all fun and games for us! and increased traffic! that's why we can all say: LILY, WE LUV YA!

and tony, really, you are harmless....

:D

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:32 AM   #449
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Eva wrote
she even has atheist friends! and gay friends! and even, maybe, friends at all! she is so understanding....she loves the sinner, not the sin....
Are you talking about "she, Lily" or "she, Jesus" ?......I'm confussed...

Like Choobus says: "I kid, because I love" :heart:
the lily, of course! you've got to admit, she is soooo cool....

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:43 AM   #450
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Eva wrote
and tony, really, you are harmless....
SHHHHHH!!!! You promised not to say anything in front of the kids...

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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