05-16-2012, 12:17 AM
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#1
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New Member!
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
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Need help with question on Fairness / Justice
I need help with a morality question....
When it comes to the idea of fairness and justice relating to morality and that despite that I believe this evolves from a tribal need for survival, there are are those who argue that the idea of right and wrong were imbedded in us from some higher power/God.
1) Do you believe there is a problem with relativism? Some might argue that it ultimately leads to people doing whatever they please regardless of other people. Anything is allowed in relativism and everything can be rationalized away as being okay - adultery, rape, killing millions and millions of people.
Ultimately, what this is going to result in if people do not realize the insanity of this worldview is that this will lead to basically a dictatorship. Why? Because if we let people do what they feel and think is best then what happens if I say that adultery and murder is wrong, but you say it is right? What will be the "law of the land"? It will come down to brute force and power - whoever has the most power and money will define the laws.
2) Do you thin that Relativism leads to Fascism?
3) What is a good argument against someone who believe that morality is imbedded in us by God and that without it we would be creatures of feeling and that "Whatever feels right for me is okay" Idea of Relativism would lead to a breakdown of society? IS it a threat to our society?
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05-16-2012, 03:39 AM
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#2
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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The expression "mad as a hatter" comes from the mercury poisoning prevalent in seventeenth-century France among hat makers who soaked animal hides in a solution of mercuric nitrate to soften the hair.
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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05-16-2012, 04:15 AM
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#3
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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My fave record label went for the Hatter back in the day:
Stop the Holy See men!
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05-16-2012, 08:13 AM
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#4
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: One the armpits of the U.S. of A.
Posts: 2,856
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In case this isn't a hit and run trolling:
1) Do you believe there is a problem with relativism?
Yep. One can have an understanding that people of a time from certain circumstances and upbringing may not know a better way to behave, while still holding that they were not acting morally.
2) Do you thin[k] that Relativism leads to Fascism?
Nope.
3) What is a good argument against someone who believe that morality is imbedded in us by God and that without it we would be creatures of feeling and that "Whatever feels right for me is okay" Idea of Relativism would lead to a breakdown of society?
Well, that is a loaded question that needs to be broken down. If morality were imbedded within us by a supreme being, then whence cometh relativism? Why do we not continue to behave in the way of the bible? If we all contained in us the same moral code of conduct from an eternal being, then why did this being once tell people that something was good but now we know it's not good?
Not very many people live by the "whatever feels right for me is okay." Most people at the very least add in qualifiers like, "as long as it doesn't unreasonably harm anyone else."
Overall though, in this question, what you've given is a false dichotomy, it's not merely between "god given morality" and "doing whatever I want." There are far more options and possibilities.
IS it a threat to our society?
Relativism is no more a threat to our society than most other things, but far less dangerous than religion. Imagine the "relativistic" view on condom use to prevent the spread of aids and the ignorant supreme liar for Jesus telling people that condoms spread aids worse than not using them. One would lead to less spreading of aids and listening the lying religious fucker keeps leading towards the spread of aids.
I think that succoming to logical fallacies is far worse than relativism. But if you're a fan of the faulty dilemma: trying to live up to the best standards that we currently have is far better than trying to live up to standards made up by a bunch of ignorant, goat fucking, desert wanderers from 2000+ years ago. Or do you want to stop wearing cotton blends and start up slavery again?
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.
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05-16-2012, 08:55 AM
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#5
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Great Ocean Road
Posts: 2,917
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Whether there is a problem with moral relativism is neither here or there. If there is no evidence for a god or gods it is the only morality we have or have ever had. The real problem is that people that believe in a different type of morality (such as ordained by God and not conceived by humans) have their morality stuck in a particular culture, frozen in time and therefore slow to respond to current and changing circumstances. Humans can't evolve if morality doesn't evolve with them.
Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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05-16-2012, 09:01 AM
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#6
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I Live Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,193
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Quote:
madhatter wrote
1) Do you believe there is a problem with relativism? Some might argue that it ultimately leads to people doing whatever they please regardless of other people.
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Moral relativism is a reality not a political option. We live with it now. We have always lived with it. Do you believe that everyone does what they want without impunity?
Quote:
madhatter wrote
Anything is allowed in relativism and everything can be rationalized away as being okay - adultery, rape, killing millions and millions of people.
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That isn't what relativism means. Relativism doesn't mean an absence of morality, but rather that morality varies between cultures, regionally and temporally.
Quote:
madhatter wrote
2) Do you think that Relativism leads to Fascism?
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No. I think disparity in power leads to Fascism.
Quote:
madhatter wrote
3) What is a good argument against someone who believe that morality is imbedded in us by God and that without it we would be creatures of feeling and that "Whatever feels right for me is okay" Idea of Relativism would lead to a breakdown of society? IS it a threat to our society?
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The "correct" interpretation of the bible is variable over time and now necessitates interpreters. All morality is relative regardless if a text is used. The short argument is "How many shell fish eaters have you stoned today?"
Never give a zombie girl a piggy back ride.
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05-16-2012, 09:23 AM
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#7
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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Reinterpreting the biblical "thou shalt not kill" with one eye on the yarn of the all-smitey drowning everybody (apart from Noah's clan), is a wonderful exercise in gymnastics for the theo-illogical mind as well as a complete waste of time.
Stop the Holy See men!
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05-16-2012, 10:45 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Boonies
Posts: 203
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1) Do you believe there is a problem with relativism?
No.
2) Do you thin that Relativism leads to Fascism?
No. But it could be argued that christianity does.
3) What is a good argument against someone who believe that morality is imbedded in us by God
There are no gods.
Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. That has been the philosophy of the Rangers since the days of the gallant pioneers.
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05-16-2012, 01:04 PM
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#9
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I Live Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9,613
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I smell a term paper needing an answer and someone too lazy to do it themselves
ā'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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05-17-2012, 02:31 AM
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#10
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,457
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I smell a theist thinking he can try to trick us.
Guaranteed if he comes back he'll try to defend this idea he "doesn't agree with" but that "some might argue" like it's the best thing ever thought of.
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05-17-2012, 08:34 AM
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#11
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Thank God Iām an atheist
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Little Britain
Posts: 1,076
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I smell bad eggs, but I think that's probably because I am sitting close to a drain.
"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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05-17-2012, 09:25 AM
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#12
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Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
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I smell ....
Stop the Holy See men!
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05-17-2012, 09:29 AM
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#13
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I Live Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9,613
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I smell nice- I just tried all the perfumes in Harrogate also bought a thing called a Fat Arcle - NOM!!!
ā'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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05-17-2012, 09:36 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Boonies
Posts: 203
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So do we think the OP is an imposter?
If yes, what do we do about it?
Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. That has been the philosophy of the Rangers since the days of the gallant pioneers.
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05-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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#15
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Great Ocean Road
Posts: 2,917
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I vote for castration!
Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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