Big Bang Debunked?

[Node18]

lily smells like straw men

[nkb]

Lily wrote

He is not alone among the intellectually honest secularist/materialist/atheists.

Lily and her favorite logical fallacy, the No True Scotsman.

Lily wrote

Too many of you don't want God to be true...

Projecting your own fears on us is humorous. You really, really, really want God to be true, otherwise your pathetic little life is worthless.

how, how is it possible to consider god as a rational scientific argument and turn around and say good luck on getting material evidence?
applying god to scientific study, is like applying chicken to brithday cakes.
just because it doesnet make any sense doesnt mean is not good!
but you know what, no sensible person would request chicken frosting on a birthday cake,
yes, science that we all sit inside of a little buble and had guided by a supreme being might be wonderful, but is it sensible to search for something that has never been able to be looked at?

and another point....
what exactly do you think is proof of god?
if its not material, then its immaterial.
i cant think of a more apporopriate theme for religious science
immaterial.
give evidence, thats all i ask for.
there are people who are among the atheist feild who feel very deeply and i am sure there are zelouts out there.
but we can easily lump them in with the same dogmatic crowd as the ones who claim god is real and are unwilling to change ti despite actual evidence.

and humerously enough.
i dont want the god of the bible to be true.....that does not change weather he is or not.
i certainly dont want to belive that there is a bipolar sky daddy waiting for me to love him despite me never seeing him.

i dont want to think that there is a man up there willing to kill everyone when he gets pissed off and has such an ego problem to call himself perfect after he fuked up.

i dont want that to exist, but he may still.
if he does, im screwed, but i am not going to waste my time following invisible freinds.

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

How can it be the bottom line when you can't grasp the simple fact that the "entity" the muslims believe in *is* God? I have repeatedly told you that there is only one God and that various religions apprehend him more or less correctly? Obviously and for historical reasons that I have spelled out at length, I think Christianity is true; if I did not, I would look elsewhere. I do have "the goods". But you want material proof of the immaterial. Good luck with that. You will never get it.

I love it when you patronize me, Lily, because I only just heard about Christianity and this whole God thing like yesterday.

Please.

You got bupkis. It's a scam. You can't "apprehend" the immaterial. Common sense. If it ain't material, then "it" ain't.

[lostsheep]

wohaz wrote

how, how is it possible to consider god as a rational scientific argument and turn around and say good luck on getting material evidence?

Good point, but again, hypochristianity is full of paradoxes like this.

wohaz wrote

i dont want the god of the bible to be true.....that does not change weather he is or not.
i certainly dont want to belive that there is a bipolar sky daddy waiting for me to love him despite me never seeing him.

i dont want to think that there is a man up there willing to kill everyone when he gets pissed off and has such an ego problem to call himself perfect after he fuked up.

I concluded long ago that god could not possibly be in any way similar to the idiotic descriptions given him/her/it by the bible or the koran or various other religions. More recently I also concluded that the idea of god was in itself idiotic. However, unlike you I DO wish there was a god who would provide justice and compensate for the terrible things which happen to people in this world. And also provide for a happy and exciting afterlife, including reunions w/ deceased loved ones. Sadly, it just ain't so.

[antix]

Lily wrote

How can it be the bottom line when you can't grasp the simple fact that the "entity" the muslims believe in *is* God? I have repeatedly told you that there is only one God and that various religions apprehend him more or less correctly?

We have repeatedly told you that we don't accept your claim that there is one god. All you are doing is showing us that different people through different times and places believed in the magic man in the sky in different ways. We already knew that, but thanks anyway.

... I do have "the goods"....

You have the goods to prove that humans through the ages believed in varying forms of god(s). No one's arguing the history of what people beleived and why. (well, I'm not, anyway). But the idea of your particular god is no more credible than the idea of Dick Cheney one day winning the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on torture.

[ghoulslime]

This is all confusing me. So was it Lily's god that wanted the Christian Dark Ages or was it another god?

ghoulslime wrote

This is all confusing me. So was it Lily's god that wanted the Christian Dark Ages or was it another god?

funny, i find it interwting that she goes to make the assertion that there is only one god, but he is seemingly bipolar.

there was only one god, but he commanded a few to kill opthers who worship him too!?!?

and to question, as i feel i may have missed it, but did lily try to explain how polytheistic cultures still follow one god?

i know that there are references to the titans and gods of the greeks actually fought!

i think this thread migh be on its last breath here,i belive lilly killed it.
unless, she shows up again.

[Philboid Studge]

wohaz wrote

funny, i find it interwting that she goes to make the assertion that there is only one god, but he is seemingly bipolar.

You mean tripolar. THere's Angry Dad, who will smite entire civilizations with festering boils because He loves them; there's Holy Spook, who rapes virgins in their sleep; and there's the Hippie Dude, who harshed everybody's buzz (except at that wedding in Cana, that was cool) so they had to kill Him.

i think this thread migh be on its last breath here,i belive lilly killed it.
unless, she shows up again.

You worship a zombie you start acting like a zombie.

wohaz wrote

funny, i find it interwting that she goes to make the assertion that there is only one god, but he is seemingly bipolar.

Huh? I don't understand. Actually, I don't understand most of this so let me get to the bit I do understand.

did lily try to explain how polytheistic cultures still follow one god?

By definition, polytheistic cultures follow more than one God. The issue is that there is only one God, even though he has been understood in many ways. Short of revelation, we can only know some things about him that we derive from nature and that, of course, means that humans have filled in the blanks, so to speak. It is not a surprise that we have come up with a number of differing ideas about who God is (or gods are).

i think this thread migh be on its last breath here,i belive lilly killed it. unless, she shows up again.

I don't kill threads. I make them live! Just count the number of messages in response to me. Or about me!

Irreligious wrote

I love it when you patronize me, Lily, because I only just heard about Christianity and this whole God thing like yesterday.

You got bupkis. It's a scam. You can't "apprehend" the immaterial. Common sense. If it ain't material, then "it" ain't.

Irr- patronizing you, or seeming to do so, can't be helped, given that you are painfully wrong. What I had hoped is that somewhere along the way, you would have been moved to pick up a book and fill in the huge gap in your understanding. You are absolutely and completely wrong. You refuse to acknowledge a 3000 year old history of human reason which has, indeed, shown that immaterial things *are*. Ever heard of mathematics? Geometry? If every last living human being on the planet dies, will the proposition that 2 + 2 = 4 still be a fact? If somehow, everyone on the planet could be persuaded that 2 + 2 = 5, would that make it true? Or is 2 +2 = 4 a truth that is independent of our minds? Humans have been wrestling with these issues for most, maybe all of human history. They have certainly been the preoccupation of most of western philosophy until very recently.

Yet you just wave it all away as being of no consequence. When will you pick up a book and do a little work towards trying to understand those matters that have been of first importance to every thinker since Thales? He probably did not emerge full blown from the head of Zeus either. But we don't know of any Greek philosopher before him. The unholy trinity of Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett are mere specks of fly dung on the spectrum of great thinkers who have wrestled with these issues.

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

By definition, polytheistic cultures follow more than one God. The issue is that there is only one God, even though he has been understood in many ways. Short of revelation, we can only know some things about him that we derive from nature and that, of course, means that humans have filled in the blanks, so to speak. It is not a surprise that we have come up with a number of differing ideas about who God is (or gods are).

Yes, polytheistic cultures claim adherence to the conceptualization of more than one God. Christians work around this by making their singular god a triumvirate entity. Other than being conceived as all-powerful, the Christian god bares very little relation in detail or deeds to the Muslim deity, who is not a triumvirate figure. Neither is the Hebrew god on which the triumvirate figure is based.

Anyway, there is copious evidence that there are numerous conceptualizations of a god figure when you examine the details of what different people claim to be worshipping. Yes, as they approach this idea of a solitary entity that is said to be responsible for all that exists, they have many different "understandings" of this concept.

You can "believe" a lot of different things about this conceptualized god figure and "attribute" a lot of things to it, but it is, ultimately, not a "knowable" entity, even if it did or does exist.

Lily wrote

I don't kill threads. I make them live! Just count the number of messages in response to me. Or about me!

Yes, you are a favorite punching bag at ravingatheists.com.

Lily wrote

Irr- patrtonizing you can't be helped, although what I had hoped is that somewhere along the way, you would have been moved to pick up a book and fill in the huge gap in your understanding. You are absolutely and completely wrong. You refuse to acknowledge a 3000 year old history of human reason which has, indeed, shown that immaterial things *are*. Ever heard of mathematics? Geometry? If every last living human being on the planet dies, will the proposition that 2 + 2 = 4 still be a fact? If somehow, everyone on the planet could be persuaded that 2 + 2 = 5, would that make it true? Or is 2 +2 = 4 a truth that is independent of our minds? Humans have been wrestling with these issues for most, maybe all of human history. They have certainly been the preoccupation of most of western philosophy until very recently.

Yet you just wave it all away as being of no consequence. When will you pick up a book and do a little work towards trying to understand those matters that have been of first importance to every thinker since Thales? He probably did not emerge full blown from the head of Zeus either. But we don't know of any Greek philosopher before him. The unholy trinity of Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett are mere specks of fly dung on the spectrum of great thinkers who have wrestled with these issues.

Sweetie pie, you don't know what books I have read on the subject. The fact that I don't take this conceptualization-- and that's all it is when all is said and done-- seriously does not mean that I am oblivious to all of the fruitless navel-gazing on this topic. And there is far too much of it in existence for either you or me to investigate all the myriad assertions about the imponderables in one lifetime.

I have as much motivation to immerse myself in your particular preoccupation as you have to immerse yourself in Eastern philosophy or the many, many other approaches to "divining" the imponderables.

I have better things to think about.

[Mog]

Ah! 5 more painfully wrong paragraphs about how painfully wrong we are. Way to go, painfully wrong Lily. Someday, you'll get to compile all your bulletin board posts addressed to the 5-10 people that show up each day on this board as guests and write your great American novel!

(And Lily, your own religion is a polytheistic religion in denial. Not only do you have your god with a curious sense of multiple personality disorder, able to play both victim and victimizer at once, but to make your system work, you have Satan and a horde of angels and saints, who are all too willing to play roles similar to the roles in more traditional polytheistic religions.)

Its just one big Courtiers reply to you, isn't it?

[nkb]

If mathematics exists, then God exists. Comedy gold!

Mathematics is a human construct. 2+2=4 is only valid as long as at least one person keeps it going. If every single person died, and all our writings and such disappeared, 2+2=4 would also disappear. They are simply symbols that we have come up with to better understand and describe the world.

2+2=5 could now be the new math, just as much as x+x=ü.

[Irreligious]

And excellent point, nkb.

All of our gods will die with us.

Irreligious wrote

And excellent point, nkb.

No, it is not an excellent point and there is no educated thinker on the planet who agrees with that. You are all ignorant and content to be so.

So be it. The world goes on with you or without you.