A Personal Proof of God

[a different tim]

HomoCyclist wrote

Thank you different tim for pointing this out. But you are a smart person.

Ah...I probably should have waited for you to do it, but the tone of his post pissed me off.

Thanks for the compliment anyway......

[anthonyjfuchs]

P-Dunn wrote

What have you done to stop these things?

Irrelevant. If you claim that your supernatural agent is all-powerful and loves us, then it should want to do those things. We, as humans, being of limited power, limited means, and needing to occasionally worry about our own needs, cannot be expected to devote every breathing second fixing problems thousands of miles away.

P-Dunn wrote

You mean that you want God to actually write a book and have it fall out of the clouds?

Yes.

P-Dunn wrote

That's not at all what happened with our current Bible, as it was written by many authors over the course of thousands of years, so what do you expect?

We know that. Which is why we know that your bible is nothing more than a compendium of mythology.

P-Dunn wrote

You seem to be misunderstanding what "inspiration" is and that it doesn't mean "dictation."

Actually, Ten has demonstrated an exact understanding of the difference betwen those words. We know that you claim that you bible is "inspired"; we want a book that was not only "dictated" (wherein a supernatural agent tells his secretary what to write), but actually "authored" (a supernatural agent picks up the pen itself and writes the book). It shouldn't be difficult if said supernatural agent is all-powerful and outside of time; there's nothing to stop it from writing one comprehensively perfect book accessible to all of mankind.

P-Dunn wrote

Should God have to answer prayers like, "Lord, bring back Hitler and allow him to kill everyone on the planet except for me?"

Yes, a god should answer that prayer. It should answer that prayer with a resounding, immediate, "no, you ignorant prick."

P-Dunn wrote

"God, please make a square circle?"

Yes; that would just be cool.

P-Dunn wrote

"God, please kill yourself?"

Yes; it should answer that question with a curious, "why in the world would I want to do something like that?"

P-Dunn wrote

According to you, all prayers should be answered immediately, so if I were to pray that the world would blow up, God should have to immediately forsake everyone on the planet and do it?

That's a bizarre brand of logic. Just because I ask my wife for something doesn't mean she automatically has to do it; she can always answer me -- immediately -- by saying "no, dipshit." Any supernatural agent could easily answer the prayer to blow up the world with an immediate, unmistakable "no, dipshit."

P-Dunn wrote

What have you done to stop these things? It's easy for you to sit around and say, "Well, if God exists, and he should have corrected all these things already." In other words, God should make up for your own inaction, because if we all did our part and followed God's plan, none of these things would happen in the first place.

So what have you done?

I am trying to calm down, otherwise I am going to be voted #1 for the RANT OF THE WEEK!

But I CAN'T CONTROL MYSELF with these extremely sick theists -exception for Quaker-

I am not going to say the good that I have done in the world. I am not a christian to make public every time when I give a dime to somebody or do something good in this world.

"I sit around"... you say...doing nothing?
How old are you you Mother Fucker? What kind of profession do you have?
What do you know about my personal life you asshole??????

[Victus]

P-Dunn is one of those theists that seems to demand that humans do everything, therefore rendering God an asinine part of the equation. Simply put, "what has God ever done for us?".

Nothing. Is it asking so much for some of his parlor tricks? He used to do them all the time. I guess he's not as keen to show us his gypsy tricks now that his children can out-do most of the jibberish in the Bible.

You should worship Chris Angel.

Well, anwser D-Punn...I am waiting!

Hey D-Punn,

I am going to assume that you are severely mentally retarded, the same way you assume things about me; because, obviously, you didn't even take the time to read the #1 post by Quaker.

I just want to know how old are you, and what kind of career you have.

Whoa

*hides behind chair*

He's just a drive-by, HC. He's not worth it.

[Sternwallow]

Philboid Studge wrote

Hi Quaker!

I'd like to echo the comments of AnthonyJ, Stern, WhoNeedsSci and others here, and especially of Buzzkill: "Define 'God'." Define it with as much precision as you can, including its physical properties (if it has any) and how it interfaces with the natural world (if it does). Do that, and it should be an easy matter to discuss the sort of evidence that would satisfy me of its existence. To date, I've never heard 'God' described in any comprehensible way, and until then, talk of proofs is premature.

I'd also like to echo the comments of those exhorting you to stick around and post more.

I, too am glad to have Quaker around. He stirs my brain pan in a good way.

Here is the answer to what God is like, or if you wish, how one would know Him if we met on the street.
It shows that humans can see God without being destroyed, bursting into flame or going totally insane--
Revelation
[12] And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
[13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
[14] His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
[15] And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
[16] And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
[18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

An albino with yellow metal feet, (garbled, bubbly) speech, probably due to trying to speak around a small sword blade. Having at least one hand in the neighborhood of 6,000,000 miles (7 x solar diameter) across. Despite all of these infirmities, he has a sunny disposition due to apparent overwhelming self esteem. By his credentials, this individual can only be God.

[anthonyjfuchs]

I remember reading in a novel (I want to say that it was Jasper Fforde's the Well of Lost Plots) in which the "Great Panjandrum" (i.e. "God") appears before a huge award-show audience. Everyone described the GP's actions the same, but everyone described its appearance differently; specifically, eveyone described the GP as appearing physically like them.

[calpurnpiso]

a different tim wrote

Oh for fuck's sake. This is why we get pissed off with theists. ".....If we did our part and followed God's plan..." is meaningless without some kind of evidence that there is a God and he has a plan. That's what this topic is about.

Quaker was asking, quite reasonably, what sort of evidence we'd like. A fair question.

HomoCyclist answered, also quite reasonably, that God should find a way of rendering the world morally good, and detailed what he meant by that (I paraphrase). You can argue with his premises (and indeed most Christians say he chose to give us free will instead), but it's a fair answer. It's on topic.

What purpose does your post serve? Is it anything to do with the discussion, or is it just an excuse to morally berate us for "not following God's plan"? I'm guessing the latter.

HomoCyclist, if you read his other posts, is a doctor in Mexico. He's probably done more good in the world than you have.

Exactly, but we must also take into account P-Dunn suffers from schizophrenia type Christ-psychosis. he is unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality!.
I know it is upsetting when a miopic keep telling us the Mona Lisa represents a man wearing a hood!....so, one must tell him he suffers from Miopia and his vision is impaired. P-Dunn has a similar problem, but in his case the "impaired vision" is of his brain!. One must realize this is a person that accept as true, resurrecting people that save with blood, an universal flood when a man placed million of living things in his boat, demons haunting people, souls that leave the body after death, demonic possesions....I wonder why doesn't he believe the earth is flat and stationary?..after all the Babble says it is !!...P-Dunn has not gone into space to see this is true, besides the sun is the one moving no?..Why not follow those TEACHINGS of the babble? After all it were free thinkers/ quasi-ATHEISTS who discovered this is NOT true!...:lol:
Why is he NOT consistent in his beliefs?..isn't this hipocresy?....after all my JET clearly proves we created god with our brains.After all No brain, no god, no thinking, no thoughts, zilch, zero, no person, NOTHING!!. One must realize the TRUTH will set one free, and as long as one has a healthy brain the TRUTH can be perceived...:)

[Sternwallow]

P-Dunn wrote

What have you done to stop these things? It's easy for you to sit around and say, "Well, if God exists, and he should have corrected all these things already." In other words, God should make up for your own inaction, because if we all did our part and followed God's plan, none of these things would happen in the first place.

So what have you done?

God would be woefully ignorant to depend on any or all of us to correct the mistakes in His, highly esteemed, so-called plan. Creating the world and assigning order to it is not my job nor yours. The suffering and poverty are not necessarily due to the inaction of humans. God, if not the author of these ills, at least must have provided for the opportunity (and God was under no compulsion to do so, so it was deliberate). That makes Him, not us, culpable. We cannot be expected to clean up the cosmic messes made according to God’s great plan, nor can we attempt to change that plan without risking blasphemy. God, as the source of plagues, pestilence, hardship and even the near-total destruction of mankind, is where you should be looking for repair work on the plight of the poor, infirm, impoverished people. Wouldn’t it have been an infraction on God’s plan if someone had waylaid Judas and thereby prevented the arrest and death of Jesus?

You mean that you want God to actually write a book and have it fall out of the clouds? That's not at all what happened with our current Bible, as it was written by many authors over the course of thousands of years, so what do you expect?

You seem to be misunderstanding what "inspiration" is and that it doesn't mean "dictation."

I know very well the difference between inspiration and dictation. Inspiration without absolute control causes errors of all human fallibility. Dictation without absolute control leads to errors of copy and translation. By the above I am not criticizing the Bible, I am stating what kind of Bible might be convincing for me. And, yes, it should probably fall from the sky though that is not one of my requirements.

You really do read too much WhyWontGodHealAmputees.

Should God have to answer prayers like, "Lord, bring back Hitler and allow him to kill everyone on the planet except for me?" Or, "God, please make a square circle?" Or, "God, please kill yourself?" etc. According to you, all prayers should be answered immediately, so if I were to pray that the world would blow up, God should have to immediately forsake everyone on the planet and do it?

Don’t be deliberately obtuse! I specifically said an answer, not immediate granting. Careful how you read.

Of course no one wants God to do things that harm humanity. What is needed here is for God to simply say, loud and clear "No" as His immediate answer when the prayer will not be granted. I should have included that when the prayer is in public, everyone in earshot can also hear the answer. Slightly less strictly, God might say "Yes, but not until next Thursday when my check clears". A stony silence following a petitionary prayer is not a divine answer in the negative, it is functionally identical to having no God and no answer at all.

Scenario:
You, shouting down the hall: ”Hey, while you are up, please bring me a beer”
I arrive thirty minutes later from a trip out to buy some smokes and enter without any beer
You: “Why the heck did you refuse to bring me a beer? Why did you say ‘no’ when I asked nicely?”
Me: “What the hell are you talking about? I wasn’t even here.”

I'll admit I have never read "WhyWontGodHealAmputees" so it is useless for you to appeal to any errors found there to apply to my position. From your attitude, it must be a fine document.

[a different tim]

P-Dunn wrote

.....if we all did our part and followed God's plan, none of these things would happen in the first place

Needed to follow up on this.

What plan is this, exactly? Is it, y'know, God's plan to have his holy warriors fly planes into skyscrapers? Maybe it's his plan to exterminate all the Gay men with AIDS, like in Leviticus? Or possibly his plan to reclaim the land of Israel for His people by firing shells onto a bathing beach? Or his plan to stamp out science and rationality in education, starting with evolution? Or his plan to punish Western women for dressing like prostitutes by blowing up nightclubs in Bali? Or maybe some of his more, uh, traditional plans, like the one to convert all the Jews to Christianity by burning them at the stake?

Lots of people think they know what God's plan is. Lots of people believe they're following it. Do you have a special insight - some special hotline or something, like Bush and Osama bin Laden and Fred Phelps? Go on, please, we'd love to know the error of our ways.

P-Dunn wrote

What have you done to stop these things? It's easy for you to sit around and say, "Well, if God exists, and he should have corrected all these things already." In other words, God should make up for your own inaction, because if we all did our part and followed God's plan, none of these things would happen in the first place.

So what have you done?

I have not raped anyone, beaten anyone, abandoned anyone, etc. I've not sold anyone to slavery. I've given to charity. So, screw you; get down off your high horse; it's not even a shetland pony.

With that out of the way, what should it matter what I do? If God is out there, being all good and stuff, why does he need to rely on us, whose natures he made, to make his creation halfway to decent? The freewill defense sucks. Mainly because free will doesn't exist, and CANNOT exist in the presence of an omnipotent, omniscient God.
Point stands - your God created volcanoes, earthquakes, meteors, plagues, famines, droughts and suffering anyway, whether or not you believe the baseless, illogical assertion that we are responsible for some things. God needn't have created a world in which any of these things were possible.

P-D wrote

You mean that you want God to actually write a book and have it fall out of the clouds? That's not at all what happened with our current Bible, as it was written by many authors over the course of thousands of years, so what do you expect?

We expect a better effort. If this God character wants us to believe in him, he clearly has an apathy problem. You should realise that in this section, you don't actually make any attempt at countering Sterny's point - the Bible sucks because it's interpretable and self-contradictory. You say, "what do you expect?" we say, "exactly." If God doesn't exist, this is precisely what we expect, and a decent holy book is what Sterny's asking for as evidence.

PD wrote

Should God have to answer prayers like, "Lord, bring back Hitler and allow him to kill everyone on the planet except for me?" Or, "God, please make a square circle?" Or, "God, please kill yourself?" etc. According to you, all prayers should be answered immediately, so if I were to pray that the world would blow up, God should have to immediately forsake everyone on the planet and do it?

Whatever your take on specific prayers, God should surely answer some prayers, sometimes? Because repeated scientific studies say he damn well doesn't. You've not got the gist of the website, have you? God neither answers unambiguous nor ambiguous prayer. You lose.

[a different tim]

calpurnpiso wrote

Exactly, but we must also take into account P-Dunn suffers from schizophrenia type Christ-psychosis. he is unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality!

We have to take into account the fact that he's another smug cunt, if you ask me.

[edit] anyway, hi Quaker, welcome back. Hope the first two pages have given you something to go on.....[/edit]

P-Dunn wrote

What have you done to stop these things? It's easy for you to sit around and say, "Well, if God exists, and he should have corrected all these things already." In other words, God should make up for your own inaction, because if we all did our part and followed God's plan, none of these things would happen in the first place.

So what have you done?

You are a poor pathetic law class bastard SOB retard.

Actually you are a hopeless fucktark pathetic idiot. Only 20 posts in this forum and you already deserve my pitty. Come back you MF because I want to give it to you.