Old 08-20-2015, 04:05 PM   #31
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Yup, that's working pretty well in Somalia - and swathes of Iraq & Syria are just starting to reap the natural order benefits of rampant beheadings.
Exactly. Thank Barack Obama.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:14 PM   #32
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The fuck? Those people have been at each other's throats for millenia. The US (and the UK, for that matter) had nothing to do with it.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:36 AM   #33
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The fuck? Those people have been at each other's throats for millenia. The US (and the UK, for that matter) had nothing to do with it.
The U.S. And UK destabilized Iraq a few years ago and then left town. Surely you remember. They had everything to do with it.

The U.S. capitulated in Syria (remember obama walking back red lines on chemical weapons?) and in Iran (pro democracy uprising, anyone), allowing Isis to gain a foothold in Syria and fight a Sunni-extremist proxy war.

And Somalia? I know nothing, nor do I give a fuck. Too bad for the people who got born there.
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:28 AM   #34
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The U.S. And UK destabilized Iraq a few years ago and then left town. Surely you remember. They had everything to do with it.[...]
You forgot that the region was pretty well fucked for a few centuries, the Iran-Contra affair under Reagan, the war in Iraq by Bush I, the two unjustified, unsanctioned wars started by Bush II, the torture sanctioned by Bush II... and skipped right to irrationally blaming Obama for all the problems in that region. Being so severely ignorant of history, politics, and facts, while repeating bullshit started by Faux News and highly dishonest Republicans doesn't do much good for supporting your argument.

I recognize these childish viewpoints and arguments. This conversation would be much more interesting if there were an adult on the other side who could think for itself.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:32 AM   #35
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Yup, that's working pretty well in Somalia - and swathes of Iraq & Syria are just starting to reap the natural order benefits of rampant beheadings.
Looks like yet another liberetardarian. The kind that seem to only retain the facts that support their shitty arguments and refuse to acknowledge any facts that don't.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:02 AM   #36
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You forgot that the region was pretty well fucked for a few centuries, the Iran-Contra affair under Reagan, the war in Iraq by Bush I, the two unjustified, unsanctioned wars started by Bush II, the torture sanctioned by Bush II... and skipped right to irrationally blaming Obama for all the problems in that region. Being so severely ignorant of history, politics, and facts, while repeating bullshit started by Faux News and highly dishonest Republicans doesn't do much good for supporting your argument.

I recognize these childish viewpoints and arguments. This conversation would be much more interesting if there were an adult on the other side who could think for itself.
Babyish ad hominems aside, Obama inherited a fucked up mess and made it even worse by withdrawing residual forces. Isis happened on his watch and through his decisions. You can stroke his cock all you want but he's still the accountable one for the current mess.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:45 AM   #37
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you're funny, but also very sad to watch. So ignorant and arrogant at the same time! So hypocritical that you must be a joke. No way a person would say that government is bad and should do less, while also saying that the government should have done more, and not be joking... unless they're mentally inferior to an extreme.

Calling my adhominems "babyish" when I pointed out how ignorant an immature you are... I wonder where you could have gotten that? Oh yeah, me. Saying I'm stroking his cock, while this one wasn't something you plagiarized from me, it's actually a very common tactic used to attempt to insult others when the insulter is out of intelligent things... both of which don't have much effect on me other than getting me to laugh at you. Being insulted by petulant children doesn't have any effect on me, so go right ahead and try it.

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Old 08-21-2015, 09:52 AM   #38
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you're funny, but also very sad to watch. So ignorant and arrogant at the same time! So hypocritical that you must be a joke. No way a person would say that government is bad and should do less, while also saying that the government should have done more, and not be joking... unless they're mentally inferior to an extreme.

Calling my adhominems "babyish" when I pointed out how ignorant an immature you are... I wonder where you could have gotten that? Oh yeah, me. Saying I'm stroking his cock, while this one wasn't something you plagiarized from me, it's actually a very common tactic used to attempt to insult others when the insulter is out of intelligent things... both of which don't have much effect on me other than getting me to laugh at you. Being insulted by petulant children doesn't have any effect on me, so go right ahead and try it.
Your entire rant is rife with "common" tactics. Oh, but you authored them all. You are so creative. Lol.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:19 AM   #39
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I guess so. Thanks!

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:35 PM   #40
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The next time someone accuses atheists of group-think I might just point them to this thread.


Ignoring the Syria/Iran stuff (because that kinda bores me and I am not that educated on it currently), I do stand by what I said about a Trump presidency.

Not being American (like many here), who is PUSA has less meaning on my-day-to-day, andreally the main things I care about as far as the american president goes are foreign policies, global economic stability, not starting a thermo-nuclear war and I guess environmental impact? Everything else is nice, but makes little difference with me.

Like Obama-care. Beyond my liking the idea of universal healthcare for everyone, I personally don't care that much about it, because I'm not American. I already have pretty damn good government-supported health care being Australian, and whether americans have it or not makes no actual difference to me.

My point being that I don't particularly care about Trump's domestic policies - though as many of his Republican opponents are now trying to point out to slow him down, he has held some radically liberal views in the past, and likely still holds some - if not most of them. Even if he doesn't, the fact he once did should give him the ability to see an issue from a range of varying points beyond the narrow ultra-right-super-religious candidates the republicans usually throw up recently.

He has said some dumb shit about the wall between mexico and america to *keep out the immigrants* which is yeah seemingly pretty racist. I doubt he's actually going to do much on it, though. Rather it comes across more as tough-talk-no-walk to get certain demo votes in the primaries. I can imagine him dropping it pretty hard if he gets to the point of actually having to campaign for the presidency, rather than the nomination.


At the end of the day, beyond starting a worldwide thermo-nuclear war (and what's the chances of him doing that? Surely 10-15% at most), the amount of damage/good a single democratic government can do isn't as world-changing as people pretend it is. "Obama ruined america"/"Obama saved america".
He didn't do either. The country's still running. People still get up and go to work. There's still crime. He made an impact but America is still pretty much America, you know?

The same thing would happen with Trump, but at least it would be one hell of an interesting adventure.

Michael...you are correct
- selliedjoup
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:48 PM   #41
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Cleese commentating is entirely appropriate in this comedy. Is Sarah Palin involved this term perchance? A great loss to the world of laughs, caused by the stupidity of the electorate.
Anyway, anyone who describes the sacrament as crackers gets my vote .

thank goodness he's on our side
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:54 PM   #42
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OK, in near-term history, I agree that the operations taking out Saddam Hussein did destabilize the region. What I'm talking about is the general sweep of history in the ME. It's always been a pit of war, at some time or another. Unfortunately, the power vacuum left by our withdrawal is being filled by the IS. And as far as it goes, it is my considered opinion that we should have kept our dicks out of the ME way back after the end of WW1.

Who knows if that interference helped or hindered the current situation?
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:02 PM   #43
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Well, finally. Someone with reading comprehension skillz who understands nuance and is unafraid of a political opinion that's not in jackboot lockstep with their own. That is refreshing. Thanks for chiming in, Michael.

You make some well-thought points and I'm even a tad ashamed that my knowledge of Australian government extends to the notion that I think you might have a PM and that Midnight Oil sang about past mistreatment of your indigenous populations and other political things on their amazingly loud and heavy "Red Sails in the Sunset," one of my favorite albums of the 80s up there with "The dreaming," "Hatfull of Hollow" and "reign in Blood."

I digress.

I like your theory of Trump making things interesting as a motive for wanting to see him elected. It's certainly as good a reason as any, and I wish the bald dude from the Oils would become your PM for the same reason.

That said, Obama has done some serious damage to the U.S. Not saying his predecessors haven't either. But I think stuff trump is saying he'll do could help put some things right again and getting our terrible economy going again.

I disagree with you on him being racist or saying racist things on immigration. Is birthright citizenship a reality in Australia? I know it's not in any country in Europe. He's really just speaking the truth. Mexico and China are corrupt and are out playing the U.S. It's not even debatable.

Race is a cudgel being used indiscriminately in politics by stupid fuckers, mainly on the American left of the political spectrum. It's so boring. They and their willing accomplices in the press tar people who don't agree with them as racist. And then the burden of proof is on them to prove they're not. Like i say, boring playbook.
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:06 PM   #44
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OK, in near-term history, I agree that the operations taking out Saddam Hussein did destabilize the region. What I'm talking about is the general sweep of history in the ME. It's always been a pit of war, at some time or another. Unfortunately, the power vacuum left by our withdrawal is being filled by the IS. And as far as it goes, it is my considered opinion that we should have kept our dicks out of the ME way back after the end of WW1.

Who knows if that interference helped or hindered the current situation?
Well put. I agree with this 1000 percent.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:07 PM   #45
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Being so severely ignorant of history, politics, and facts, while repeating bullshit started by Faux News and highly dishonest Republicans doesn't do much good for supporting your argument.

I recognize these childish viewpoints and arguments. This conversation would be much more interesting if there were an adult on the other side who could think for itself.
Shocking how uninformed so many are, by choice it would seem. In this Internet era, a little education is so easily available at sites like "Third World Traveller" which reveals just who is destabilizing governments and propping up dictators.


Use foolproof airtight logic on a mind that's closed and you're dead. - William J. Reilly, Opening Closed Minds
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