From atheist to EX atheist . Hello.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

Show us your god.

No. That is for another post. What we are dealing with here and which is the main reason I came to this Forum, is for you to show us your Naturalism and Materialism giving us what we have because atheism is full of reason and rational.

[Smellyoldgit]

Ex Atheist wrote

Please dont refer me to read a book or do a google...

Fairy nuff - I've done the research for you and I think I've found the cause of your problems;
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c8_1287547879

[Ex Atheist]

Sternwallow wrote

Happy to oblige. The first replicating molecules were tiny and simple additions to existing complex molecules that could not replicate. There were probably many thousands of molecules that became able to replicate this way, by a simple non-complex addition, which for various reasons did not happen to survive. When some of these first replicators did survive for a while, only one strain of them has survived until now. Those first replicators were probably RNA rather than the more complex DNA. They produced DNA as part of their replication and, at some point, DNA became dominant.

Do try to learn about biology and evolution, won't you? It is fascinating and understanding evolution has been responsible for many of the medicines and medical practices that you benefit from every day.

This has been explained to you before. Those "constants" were certainly not chosen to make our life possible; they do not control nature, they are empirically discovered attributes of it. They are no more "fine tuned" than is the value of Pi.

There is no reason to believe that the "constants" were "fine tuned" because there are plausible, non-intentional alternatives including the anthropic principle and multiverse. It may also be found, when the GUT is finally developed, that the "constants" are interdependent and cannot have different values, as many people imagine.

An analog to the fine tuning question is:
what kind of universe would you get if someone (the Creator) had made "3" be "15" instead. How far can you tweak the value of "3" and still have a universe that supports life?

Self-ordering systems of which there are many in nature and in mathematics, transition from less complex to more complex without a conscious intervenor. In particular, evolution has repeatedly demonstrated that new inheritable traits can be added, old ones removed and existing ones modified simply by selection from multiple population generations.

1. Where did the first DNA molecule come from when it is irreducibly complex ?
2. Using words like 'probably' means there is no emphirical evidence., and it shows that your beliefs are based on faith. (a religion) .
3. Youre ignorant of the 150 plus Physics Constants (anthropics) ; they are all necessary for earth to be here . Some are to the 150th decimal place in critical tolerance such as the Cosmological Constant while Hawkings himself identified the critical tolerance of the Universes expansion rate at 1/1,000,000 th otherwise we are not here. , plus many others of like extreme fine tuning. So, how did natural processes that are non intelligent first bring them all into being, then allowed for them to act collaboratively with one another, then to go on sustaining ?
4. Before you get into macro evolution as A THEORY , you need to prove abiogenesis occured. Can you show by what natural process that occured when your atheist colleagues and notable Scientists such as Wicksramaghe , Hoyle, and the DNA structure cofounder Dr. Francis Crick all affirm the probability at 10x40,000 th chance of it occuring by atheistic means ?
5. Bonus : How come you must jettison a personal theistic Creator for a personal Universe ?

[nkb]

It's already been explained to you. The fact that you are ignoring it is not our problem.



Oh, almost forgot: Dipshit!

[Ex Atheist]

nkb wrote

It's already been explained to you. The fact that you are ignoring it is not our problem.



Oh, almost forgot: Dipshit!

Im looking for emphirical evidence...you know, the kind you expect from Theists. And im looking to dialogue with people who can show some restraint when it comes to defamation , filthy talk, and bravado thinking it helps support your religion when it doesnt .

[Smellyoldgit]

Ex Atheist wrote

Im looking for emphirical evidence...

You thick cunt.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

No. That is for another post. What we are dealing with here and which is the main reason I came to this Forum, is for you to show us your Naturalism and Materialism giving us what we have because atheism is full of reason and rational.

For the genuinely curious, the natural world is materially apprehensible and available for examination. Your god is not.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

Im looking for emphirical evidence...you know, the kind you expect from Theists. And im looking to dialogue with people who can show some restraint when it comes to defamation , filthy talk, and bravado thinking it helps support your religion when it doesnt .

Dude, pursue an academic degree. Study Earth science, biology, chemistry, physics, etc., then, perhaps, you'll learn whatever it is you claim you want to know. At least, you may get personal access to that empiricism you're demanding from others here.

Otherwise, you cannot expect to have the kind of conversation you're seeking with some of the other posters here who are more educated than you are on those subjects. You don't have the background.

As for gods and supernatural realms, you know as well as we do that they are not available for scientific inquiry, as they are only allegations lacking any material substance in our natural world.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

For the genuinely curious, the natural world is materially apprehensible and available for examination. Your god is not.

Yes it is...but thats not the point. You have to show how non intelligent materials gave us specific and enormous detailed instructions as in the DNA Molecule, how materials brought forth non materials things like reason, love, compassion, empathy, morality , and ethical frameworks . How compilations of compilations of accidents from materials brought about a Universe to such a high degree of precise accuracy and how dead chemicals from a 'soup pond' brought forth a living organsim with such information in it that it is equivalent to 1,000 volumes of encyclopedias. Show that thereby demonstrating that your faith in atheism is credible. We are here to discuss atheism and its constructs and why any reasonable person should enroll in it.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

Dude, pursue an academic degree. Study Earth science, biology, chemistry, physics, etc., then, perhaps, you'll learn whatever it is you claim you want to know. At least, you may get personal access to that empiricism you're demanding from others here.

Otherwise, you cannot expect to have the kind of conversation you're seeking with some of the other posters here who are more educated than you are on those subjects. You don't have the background.

As for gods and supernatural realms, you know as well as we do that they are not available for scientific inquiry, as they are only allegations lacking any material substance in our natural world.

Im not interested in your suggestions or defamation conclusions....only in you showing how atheism as a worldview is tenable. Please do so.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

Yes it is...but thats not the point. You have to show how non intelligent materials gave us specific and enormous detailed instructions as in the DNA Molecule, how materials brought forth non materials things like reason, love, compassion, empathy, morality , and ethical frameworks . How compilations of compilations of accidents from materials brought about a Universe to such a high degree of precise accuracy and how dead chemicals from a 'soup pond' brought forth a living organsim with such information in it that it is equivalent to 1,000 volumes of encyclopedias. Show that thereby demonstrating that your faith in atheism is credible. We are here to discuss atheism and its constructs and why any reasonable person should enroll in it.

I don't have to show you that an alleged God is not behind the workings of our natural world; the fact that there is no evidence for such an assertion is quite enough.

Ultimately, nobody knows why matter exists instead of "not existing," but wildly speculating does not provide a valid answer. If the question is answerable at all, scientific inquiry is the only means we have for accomplishing that.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

I don't have to show you that an alleged God is not behind the workings of our natural world; the fact that there is no evidence for such an assertion is quite enough.

Ultimately, nobody knows why matter exists instead of "not existing," but wildly speculating does not provide a valid answer. If the question is answerable at all, scientific inquiry is the only means we have for accomplishing that.

1. Im not asking you to show me a personal theistic Creator does or does not exist ; Im asking you to show me your high-held belief in the atheistic constructs of how naturalism and materialism ARE responsible for everything including that which i mentioned above.

2. It seems that you DO know that non intelligence , non will, and non purpose are whats behind our cosmos and the many millions of life forms on earth because you 'know' that there is no personal creator behind it (which is the mantra in atheism) . So please tell us the scientific evidence that supports atheistic naturalism and materialism for the things which i mentioned above. Afterall, if you concede that nobody knows , then why is atheism true and reasonable to follow ?

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

Im not interested in your suggestions or defamation conclusions....only in you showing how atheism as a worldview is tenable. Please do so.

I know what you're interested in, but you're not going to get that here. I told you that already.

You want us to prove that your god does not exist. Well, we can't, which is why you will always be free to believe in this allegation and embellish on it to your heart's content.

Of course, we also are logically prohibited from proving that immaterial blue bunnies wearing invisible magenta and chartreuse, polka-dotted thongs did [b]not[/i] create the universe. So, that proposition, by the standards you are setting for "reasonable belief," would be just as valid.

And I'm not defaming you. You're being willfully and relentlessly stupid all on your own. I can't help it if you are sincerely incapable of perceiving why it is a fair observation for me and others here to point that out.

[Ex Atheist]

From Irreligious :



Again, your journey (which is depressingly typical) sounds like that of a rebellious Christian and not a skeptical atheist. Clearly, you have no clue what it means to "not believe" in the god you worship, because you were never that person. You were a self-centered, back-sliding "believer" all along and now you're repenting out of fear, either of eternal torment or missing out on all that eternal fun you think is due you after you die. These are not the actions of a non-superstitious skeptic.[/quote]

REPLY: Your assertion (strawman) is a speculative misconception and non-sequitar because i never came from a Christian home ; I was raised agnostic teetering on atheism and i choose full blown atheism during my teen years both in belief and in lifestyle. So no, backsliding is inaccurate because I didnt backslide from anything. Like all other people who proclaim themselves as 'atheists', I believed in a personal Theistic Creator as even Dawkins admitted to, but I wasnt willing to publicly admit it nor get to know more about this Creator, and certainly not follow him . The term 'Atheist' is really a misnomer and an invalid title as no one has the kind of faith required to be an actual atheist when looking at the vast examples of design/engineering/and complexity that abounds ; in fact, to maintain the atheists proclamation, it requires a willful suppression of the evidence and inherent knowledge of a Creator , so the 'Atheist' can be a free thinker and free spirit person apart from any moral culpability at all while allowing his autonomy to blossom. Here is an explanation of how it works with all people who think they were born 'atheists' ; youll be able to see the psychological ulterior motive behind it as you read it . I dont intend this as personal defamation....only to show the willful personal deciet behind atheism which i bought into as well as yourself and others :
__________________________________________________ ________
A Poster says : 'I have often been asked to tell the story of how I became an atheist.
> The short - and perhaps somewhat flippant - answer would be: I was born that way. And that's the truth.
> I am using the word "atheist" to mean someone who does not have a belief in God. And that's exactly the way I was born, as were all of us, I suspect. '


> RESPONSE: NO ONE is born an atheist . If you were, you would have no reason to ask your Parents : how did all of this get here, or, why are we here ? You would automatically assume it was by accident for no reason...but...you didnt assume that. Your Parents response , based on thier philosophical bias, groomed you to believe they were telling you the truth. Then as you entered school, you got some reinforcing ideas that you were just a cosmic accident of unpurposed Pond Scum . As the years went by, and you started to adopt a self centered lifestyle based on maximum pleasure , you found atheism best suited your lifestyle choices with the added 'benefit' of no ultimate moral accountability to anyone higher than yourself. This continued into adulthood , where, the total freedom for pleasure seeking became a reality with being an adult. After many years of living in this addiction to SELF , you refuse anything which becomes a fly in the ointment to what youve chosen for yourself including : an unwillingness to look into evidence for Creation , not wanting a personal Creator to even exist , grasping at desperate philosophies and theories that many others embrace as a philosophical bias, and, a refusal to become LESS consumed with self gratification because it is 'your freedom and right' .
>
> The end of the story goes like this : You end up on your deathbed realizing how shallow life truly was with trying to find that new elusive pleasure , and slip away into despair from not having realized your ultimate purpose for having lived your life. The void in your heart remained right up until your final breathe ; then in just a few short moments...you suddenly realize that although your physical body has died, the REAL you...the INNER PERSON, has not ! During the next few seconds, you finally realize what your earthly life SHOULD have been like...but alas, you cannot go back to start a real personal relationship with the personal Creator of the Cosmos in whos image he lovingly made you. And..as they say....'the rest is history' .
>
> THAT is how it doesnt have to be . Atheism is the big lie ...a perpetuated fraud on oneself.
>

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

I know what you're interested in, but you're not going to get that here. I told you that already.

You want us to prove that your god does not exist. Well, we can't, which is why you will always be free to believe in this allegation and embellish on it to your heart's content.

........................
.

Im asking you to PROVE that atheist constructs of materialism and naturalism which you DO believe in and think are credible ; Im asking you to prove a positive -- not that God does not exist. Please list your evidence which is why you choose atheism instead of another religion. Afterall, it isnt faith-based it is ???