Calpurnpiso and I might make a fine tag team over Crucifixion.

[Ed-M]

New here! I've been lurking off and on for a short while but I figured, it's time to join. Besides, Calpurnpiso and I (as YouTuber EdM021) had a small back and forth over whether the Romans crucified or not.

I became born-again in my teens and for a long while, I continued to subscribe to Christianity. I basically got burnt out by it in my twenties when I joined a cult called the Boston Church of Christ. Still believed until recently, attended services to recharge off and on. What caused my faith to collapse? Simple. I found out that in the 1st Century CE, Nazareth never existed. All that was discovered to be there (so far) was a necropolis and one single family house. And no mention of that town in the historical records until the 2nd century CE. That is a proven fact.

Well after that, I decided to look into the business of "crucifixion." Turns out, what the Romans did was a form of impalement. And what is the modern definition of "crucifixion?"

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

crucifixion n. 1.a. The act of crucifying, execution on a cross. b. Crucifixion. The crucifying of Jesus on Calvary. Used with the. c. A representation of Jesus on the cross. 2. An extremely difficult and painful trial; tortuous suffering.

crucify v. -fied, fying, fies. 1. To put a person to death by nailing or binding to a [Ed-M: flat plane] cross. 2. To mortify or subdue (the flesh). 3. To subject to cruel treatment; torment: a candidate who was crucified by the press. [Middle English crucified, from Old French crucifier, alteration of Latin crucifigere : crux, cruc-, cross + figere, to attach.

So, according to the modern definition of crucifixion, the Romans never crucifed. Either that or we moderns have crucifixion completely wrong!

Anybody wants to discuss, either lets's dig up the old thread that references Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in it, or start a new one!

In closing, I'm grateful to the fates that I'm no longer under the spell of Christianity.

[Ed-M]

Now I decided to join. I know Calpurnpiso from YouTube and he knows me over there, as EdM021.

I recovered from Christianity only recently when I discovered that there was no such city as Nazareth in the 1st Century CE. Just a necropolis and a single family house.

And crucifixion? Calpurn is right! Even tho' I argued that the Romans did crucify on YouTube (going by the Romans' definition but neglecting to reveal I was going by it - my bad!) if you go by the modern definition, you'll have to admit as I did that the Romans never crucified.

More here: http://ravingatheists.com/forum/show...8&postcount=16

[lostsheep]

That's odd...there is so much historical inaccuracy that most Christians choose to ignore. Why this one issue in particular?

[Choobus]

crucifiction: made up story about suicidal man-ghost-god used to trick simpletons for political and monetary gain

[calpurnpiso]

Ed-M wrote

New here! I've been lurking off and on for a short while but I figured, it's time to join. Besides, Calpurnpiso and I (as YouTuber EdM021) had a small back and forth over whether the Romans crucified or not.

I became born-again in my teens and for a long while, I continued to subscribe to Christianity. I basically got burnt out by it in my twenties when I joined a cult called the Boston Church of Christ. Still believed until recently, attended services to recharge off and on. What caused my faith to collapse? Simple. I found out that in the 1st Century CE, Nazareth never existed. All that was discovered to be there (so far) was a necropolis and one single family house. And no mention of that town in the historical records until the 2nd century CE. That is a proven fact.

Well after that, I decided to look into the business of "crucifixion." Turns out, what the Romans did was a form of impalement. And what is the modern definition of "crucifixion?"

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

crucifixion n. 1.a. The act of crucifying, execution on a cross. b. Crucifixion. The crucifying of Jesus on Calvary. Used with the. c. A representation of Jesus on the cross. 2. An extremely difficult and painful trial; tortuous suffering.

crucify v. -fied, fying, fies. 1. To put a person to death by nailing or binding to a [Ed-M: flat plane] cross. 2. To mortify or subdue (the flesh). 3. To subject to cruel treatment; torment: a candidate who was crucified by the press. [Middle English crucified, from Old French crucifier, alteration of Latin crucifigere : crux, cruc-, cross + figere, to attach.

So, according to the modern definition of crucifixion, the Romans never crucifed. Either that or we moderns have crucifixion completely wrong!

Anybody wants to discuss, either lets's dig up the old thread that references Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in it, or start a new one!

In closing, I'm grateful to the fates that I'm no longer under the spell of Christianity.

Hey welcome Ed...the amazing thing is that scholars do not look at the epigraphy & interpretations of language...besides failing to use common sense placing themselves in the shoes of a 1st Century VAst Roman Empire citizen. Placing someone up nailed to a cross, which is a symbol of the sun god, it would be as revering the criminal as a god.
I've been all over and I 've yet to find a person punished by been nailed to a cross.
The whole crucifixion thing was a mutation & distortion of tropaeums, specially after the wax image of the son of venus, IuliusCaesar the CHRIST, was placed on a mechanical device that could be rotated arms extended( a tropaeum ) so everyone could see the GOD that had protected them ( Caesar was famous for his clemencia which following DIVINE emperors adopted ). The only way a wax imago ( wax masks of ancestors, since they were LIGHT, were displayed on atriums of houses as we display photographs) of a god can be attach to a Tropaeum CROSS, is by using NAILS ( made of gold no doubt) since ropes were for criminals & the vanquished.

The comet of 44bce that appeared on July 20 during the funeral games given by the son of god Octavius in honor of his father CaesarChrist & his MOTHER VENUS,Maia, Isis, would propel Caesar to the status of a resurrected god that saves with blood which is now in heaven surrounded by the stars-Gods. Octavius Caesar Augustus thus begun minting coins & building temples ALL over the VAST EMPIRE to cement the belief of a triune GOD the Father in heaven, the son (him) & his respective genius ( Spirit). Augustus was the God made flesh ( since he was alive) venerated as such all over the empire ( as the Pope is today) but in truth he always refer to GOD MY FATHER during invocations & prayers. This tradition was followed by all the emperors, building temples so they be worshiped after they had died & ascended to heaven. The epigraphy of this speaks VOLUMES. The big mistake was when an emperor would declare while alive a living god. This happen to Caligula & Nero initiating the ire of the Traders & merchants that resided in Judea Palestina who were the FIRST CHRISTIANS ( Caesar Christ had protected them since their main virtue was to be speculators, thus they were hated).
Caesar as well as Augustus begun to MERGE with many gods including Jupiter, Horus,Yaoweh, etc etc. The temple were the JewishPSychotics bang their head on was a temple to JupiterCaesarAugustus.
There was no such a thing as synagogues or "jewish temples" in 1st C ce. The so called "Jewish" temple that was plundered in 70ce by Titus ( all temples were treasure houses in the ancient world besides places of worship) was a ROMAN TEMPLE ( like the one in Balbeck) whose treasure was taken the REBELS, not all the population was anti Roman the fact of this can be seen in "RABBI" Flavius Josephus adopted by VespacianChrist, admired & die a peaceful death! Why would a traitor be so admired and left alive? Why would a Roman ChristEMperor who killed Jews adopted him?

The fact is that the temple had been defiled by the rebels, so the Romans took the main ROMAN SACRED objects back to ROME to purify them. They are the three most sacred objects of ROMAN rituals contained in temples.
1) The Vestal Virgin candelabra depicting the seven gods each with a FIRE of Vesta/sungod ( Menorah).
2)The table of the sacred presence, This was the table/altar where the God Emperor created the DIVINE LAWS to rule his heavenly kingdom ( VAST Roman empire) and
3) the trumpet/torch of truth, which is the one held by the Genius ( life essence guardian angel each person receives at birth)

if there was a place where crucifixion as punishment had to be depicted if this was a method of punishing criminals was in the Column of Trajan & Marcus Aurelius. Military prowess Victory columns!. There is NONE...but there is ample depiction of impaling, where the FACE of the criminal on a pole at EYE LEVEL could serve as an example for all to see.
I've yet to see in any ancient culture EVIDENCE of crucifixion as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbPi_X2yUY

[Sol]

Facepalm....

[Smellyoldgit]

Ed-M wrote

I know Calpurnpiso from YouTube

You have my deepest sympathy.
We'll pay you a king's ransom in Leprechaun gold if you play tag with the Clapper and keep the tedious fuckwit tied down for a couple of years!

[Ed-M]

lostsheep wrote

That's odd...there is so much historical inaccuracy that most Christians choose to ignore. Why this one issue in particular?

Simple. One does not nail a criminal to a cross and exalt him as a god. Yet that's how crucifixion is portrayed in Mel Gibson's hideous snuff film.

[Ed-M]

Smellyoldgit wrote

You have my deepest sympathy.
We'll pay you a king's ransom in Leprechaun gold if you play tag with the Clapper and keep the tedious fuckwit tied down for a couple of years!

I know! Sometimes we'll get into fights over here whether the Romans nailed or tied people to vertical gravity-racks and impaled them on the attached cruxes (impaling stakes also Penis-Christs) for purpose of execution. Yet that's one form of live impalement and the other form is direct impalement a la Vlad the Impaler. And the Romans called both types of impalement "crucifixion." The stupid Christians changed all that. Now we have religious and BDSM enthusiats trying to replicate both The Crucifiction and Roman "crucifixion" based on erroneous information.

[Ed-M]

calpurnpiso wrote

Hey welcome Ed...the amazing thing is that scholars do not look at the epigraphy & interpretations of language...besides failing to use common sense placing themselves in the shoes of a 1st Century VAst Roman Empire citizen. Placing someone up nailed to a cross, which is a symbol of the sun god, it would be as revering the criminal as a god.
I've been all over and I 've yet to find a person punished by been nailed to a cross.
The whole crucifixion thing was a mutation & distortion of tropaeums, specially after the wax image of the son of venus, IuliusCaesar the CHRIST, was placed on a mechanical device that could be rotated arms extended( a tropaeum ) so everyone could see the GOD that had protected them ( Caesar was famous for his clemencia which following DIVINE emperors adopted ). The only way a wax imago ( wax masks of ancestors, since they were LIGHT, were displayed on atriums of houses as we display photographs) of a god can be attach to a Tropaeum CROSS, is by using NAILS ( made of gold no doubt) since ropes were for criminals & the vanquished.

The comet of 44bce that appeared on July 20 during the funeral games given by the son of god Octavius in honor of his father CaesarChrist & his MOTHER VENUS,Maia, Isis, would propel Caesar to the status of a resurrected god that saves with blood which is now in heaven surrounded by the stars-Gods. Octavius Caesar Augustus thus begun minting coins & building temples ALL over the VAST EMPIRE to cement the belief of a triune GOD the Father in heaven, the son (him) & his respective genius ( Spirit). Augustus was the God made flesh ( since he was alive) venerated as such all over the empire ( as the Pope is today) but in truth he always refer to GOD MY FATHER during invocations & prayers. This tradition was followed by all the emperors, building temples so they be worshiped after they had died & ascended to heaven. The epigraphy of this speaks VOLUMES. The big mistake was when an emperor would declare while alive a living god. This happen to Caligula & Nero initiating the ire of the Traders & merchants that resided in Judea Palestina who were the FIRST CHRISTIANS ( Caesar Christ had protected them since their main virtue was to be speculators, thus they were hated).
Caesar as well as Augustus begun to MERGE with many gods including Jupiter, Horus,Yaoweh, etc etc. The temple were the JewishPSychotics bang their head on was a temple to JupiterCaesarAugustus.
There was no such a thing as synagogues or "jewish temples" in 1st C ce. The so called "Jewish" temple that was plundered in 70ce by Titus ( all temples were treasure houses in the ancient world besides places of worship) was a ROMAN TEMPLE ( like the one in Balbeck) whose treasure was taken the REBELS, not all the population was anti Roman the fact of this can be seen in "RABBI" Flavius Josephus adopted by VespacianChrist, admired & die a peaceful death! Why would a traitor be so admired and left alive? Why would a Roman ChristEMperor who killed Jews adopted him?

The fact is that the temple had been defiled by the rebels, so the Romans took the main ROMAN SACRED objects back to ROME to purify them. They are the three most sacred objects of ROMAN rituals contained in temples.
1) The Vestal Virgin candelabra depicting the seven gods each with a FIRE of Vesta/sungod ( Menorah).
2)The table of the sacred presence, This was the table/altar where the God Emperor created the DIVINE LAWS to rule his heavenly kingdom ( VAST Roman empire) and
3) the trumpet/torch of truth, which is the one held by the Genius ( life essence guardian angel each person receives at birth)

if there was a place where crucifixion as punishment had to be depicted if this was a method of punishing criminals was in the Column of Trajan & Marcus Aurelius. Military prowess Victory columns!. There is NONE...but there is ample depiction of impaling, where the FACE of the criminal on a pole at EYE LEVEL could serve as an example for all to see.
I've yet to see in any ancient culture EVIDENCE of crucifixion as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbPi_X2yUY

Exactly right! Except for one thing: the Romans nailed or tied people to vertical gravity-racks and impaled them on the attached cruxes (lubricated impaling stakes also Penis-Christs) for purpose of execution. That's one form of live impalement and the other form is direct impalement a la Vlad the Impaler. And the Romans called both types of impalement "crucifixion." The stupid Christians changed all that. Now we have religious and BDSM enthusiats trying to replicate both The Crucifiction and Roman "crucifixion" based on erroneous information.

But they never nailed criminals to flat-plane crosses and lifted them up like gods!

[Kate]

Ed, please, as a courtesy to those of us who do not wish to see Cal's screeds, please, please, refrain from quoting him. If you must address something in particular, please, please just cut that bit.

Please.

[psychodiva]

ditto!!!

[calpurnpiso]

Kate wrote

Ed, please, as a courtesy to those of us who do not wish to see Cal's screeds, please, please, refrain from quoting him. If you must address something in particular, please, please just cut that bit.

Please.

Hmmm...do you own this form KateTArd, os is it that the truth I present backed up with facts hurts you lots? Remember not everyone is so fond of ignorance as you are. Ed is a very well educated man, connects the dots & does research like I do. Sorry to burst your bubble. Please feed that anorexic brain of yours...ta..ta..

The difference between Ed & me is that he is well mannered & polite, I'm not, I crush deluded brains with facts for Smashing theotarded brains with the truth is my game, Calpurnpiso my name.

[psychodiva]

yeah I thought I saw a similarity between Cal and Ed- my one hope is that they keep each other occupied- my suspicious brain is telling me that cal got him over here deliberately- and I'd like the mods to check out whether they are the same person- but that's just me

[Davin]

calpurnpiso wrote

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