Does Ggod Exist? Science, Philosophy, Logic and Probabilities.

Andrew66 · 11-11-2022, 07:00 PM

Hi Everyone its your friendly neighborhood Theist Andrew66 returning after a few year hiatus!

You may remember the passionate discussions we used to have, where you all ridiculed me and made fun of my attempts to rationalize existence of God! LOL

Well guess what, over the pandemic I wrote a book entitled 'Does Ggod Exist? A dispassionate treatise!"

The Book includes many of the arguments for God that I have presented and debated on in this very site! But there are also new arguments, mostly based on the likelihood of an ultimate Creator and Master of our Multiverse based on a review of contemporary cosmological models in view of science, logic and probabilities.

Why do I spell God as "Ggod" in the title? Because Theists spell God with a capital G, and Atheists spell god with a small "g", and I wanted to be impartial in my review of the subject matter.

Here is the books website https://godbornfrominfinity.com

Here is more info about the book:

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A science philosophy piece which addresses the age old question does God Exist?

The "Gloves are off" as an Atheist and Theist boxer are imagined to enter the ring in a combative debate to promote their world-view. Science, reason and logical argumentation are brought forth in view of an extensive examination of modern cosmological models, to determine what likelihood, if any, there is either a philosophical need, or scientific expectation for a purposeful Creator and Masterful Controller of our Cosmos.

While respecting and detailing old traditional philosophic positions for God's existence such as the Kalam argument (made famous by theologian William Lane Craig), the book also dares to cross theological lines by suggesting real, plausible mechanisms for God's existence, based on physics and probabilities. Indeed a new cosmological model is put forth which suggests a God, and maybe even the God of the Bible, could plausibly naturally manifest.

Differing theories of space/time (i.e. Emergent "Growing Block" vs. Fait Accompli "Eternal Block") as well as various positions on "infinity" (i.e. actual vs. potential) are explored, to assess whether a God may, in any number of possible realities, plausibly exist. Traditional and novel argumentation is set forth in view to a climatic "Decision".

A must read for the Seeker of Truth!

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I invite everyone to get a copy so we can all discuss it (or make fun of it, ridicule it etc) here on this thread!

The cheapest way to get the content is through Kindle E reader at Amazon Books for $8.50 - and the cheapest site for the paper back (free shipping) is at Barnes and Noble for $28.95.

But if you don't wish to purchase it let me know, and (as long as its not too many of you - LOL) I'll send you a copy for free.

May Ggod Bless you all?!

Andrew66

DyingStrong · 11-12-2022, 01:09 AM

Hi Andrew, welcome back!

First of all, congratulations on your book. It sounds exciting to me that you took the time during the pandemic and accomplished something great and now you are selling it.

Now, about your arguments for God (god is better for me)... kind of tells me that you are trying to find "something" better than yourself, a great spirit, a great creator, and energy in the multiverse...? Something like that? Do you consider yourself a Free Thinker?

I am asking many questions because I want to know your position in the god thingy world.

I forgot to answer your thread question: NO, god doesn't exist.

Hope to hear from you soon, Andrew.

Andrew66 · 11-12-2022, 10:30 AM

Hi DyingStrong

Thanks for the welcome back!

I do think of myself as a free thinker. I am skeptical about any claim and a scientist in my own right. However in the past I certainly was well known to this forum as a Theist, and I remain curious whether their may exist somewhere in the Cosmos a sentient being of maximized power and knowledge - who may be "in ultimate control".

When it comes to god, for me to have any stock in such an entities existence, I (like most members on this sight) would need a reasonable, sound apologetic to get me there.

Most theologians (such as William Lane Craig, most famous) state that physical reality (whether Universe or Multiverse) must have began to exist. This is because they refute the possibility of infinity (and thereby they refute that physical reality can be infinitely old - or eternal) and hence since "all things that begin to exist in our common experience have a prior cause or explanation) the cause of physical reality must be mysteriously non physical - in a prime mover sense. Since the beginning happened at a particular moment this implies selection, which implies purpose. This is where they place god - as a sentient, spiritual prime mover.

Most Cosmologists however these days do however believe in actualized infinity, and they have no problem with physical reality itself being eternal, and simply existing forever in the past - hence not requiring a purposeful Creator!

Theist philosophers and Atheist scientists debate this very issue with great zeal!

However, when one assumes an infinitley old universe (such as proposed for example in String theories Ekpyrotic Universe, or Sir Roger Penrose's Cyclic model, or Sean Carrol's or Anthony Aguire's eternally inflating Universes with a "double headed arrow of time") this runs into an unexpected, and not commonly discussed, possibility.

Isn’t it well known that if you have a process with substantial variants (such as molecules, atoms, energy fields etc. ) running and interacting with each other “forever” (such as in an infinitely old Universe) all possible combinations will eventually form, no matter how unlikely, or how absurd?

Think of the monkey hitting random typewriter keys, eventually over a very long time the monkey will get "lucky" and type Shakespeare's plays!

Moreover, if a Multiverse is infinitely large, with infinite stuff, wouldn’t all possible forms and configurations of matter, inherently be in existence at any one moment, right from the earliest possible moment?

Can't a god (small g) at least potentially exist - as a real physical conscious being? god in this case simply defined as a maximally knowledgable and powerful being, who has - over infinite time, and/ or in keeping with infinite space - reached a level of power and technology to essentially rule the Cosmos?

Kind of like Galactus in the Fantastic Four, or "Que" in Star Trek, only even greater... the greatest being INFINITY can muster.

If you go to my website at https://godbornfrominfinity.com and click on "FAQ" at the upper right of the homepage this idea is explored.

Theists hate my book by the way - because it tends to argue that physical reality may beget a god, rather than God begetting physical reality (which is a fundamental illogical statement)!

My book has many cool pictures, explores possibilities assuming infinity does or does not actually exist, and goes through all the major cosmological models to see whether a god would be expected to naturally manifest. The book also explores the failing of the standard - prime mover- arguments made by most Theists these days.

I wrote the book with Atheists in mind. Evidence first, to see where the arguments take us.

Thanks for being the first member to weigh in!

DyingStrong · 11-12-2022, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Theist philosophers and Atheist scientists debate this very issue with great zeal!

What about atheist philosophers and stupid theists "scientists"?

Quote:

Theists hate my book by the way - because it tends to argue that physical reality may beget a god, rather than God begetting physical reality (which is a fundamental illogical statement)!

Of course.

Quote:

Kind of like Galactus in the Fantastic Four, or "Que" in Star Trek, only even greater... the greatest being INFINITY can muster.

I love Que in Star Trek. He is so evolved. I would like to be like him. Evolution maybe? Who knows. It´s good science fiction though. I just know that we, as humanity, are right now so displaced and stuck in evolution.

Quote:

A new cosmological model is put forth, that details how a Multiverse of infinite age and/or size (and most Cosmologists are favoring this view), may substantiate the existence of God, and possibly even the God of the Bible!

Seriously? what kind of cosmologist? Because there are 3 of them:
1. Physical cosmologist
2. Religious cosmologist
3. Philosophical cosmologist

Who can "substantiate the existence of god and the god of the bible? A scientist? Do you have any link to support what you state here?

I do not question the existence of any god, because there is none. A god creator? There are too many religious idiots in this world already. How am I gonna question the existence of Santa Claus, for god's sake, or the unicorn?

When I do surgery, open the abdomen, or the pelvis, or assist with a brain or heart surgery, I do not see God or the soul. I see blood, tissue of many kinds, arteries, veins, tendons, and muscles, and I know the microcosms of the human body. Where is god?

Andrew66 · 11-13-2022, 03:20 PM

[What about atheist philosophers and stupid theists "scientists"?]

Sure.

To rephrase, Theists tend to argue for an ultimate beginning of physical reality, because they like to place God there (as a first cause Agent, Creator). Atheists tend to argue for an eternal physical reality (e.g. having an infinite time line) because then there is no need for a "first cause" Creator.

[I love Que in Star Trek. He is so evolved. I would like to be like him. Evolution maybe?]

Yes, in my book one of my hypothesis is that assuming a physical reality with an infinite past (like in Penrose's CCC theory) eventually a maximally perfected sentient being, over infinite time (an hence given infinite opportunity) would EVOLVE to a level that he/she/it could actually take control of or rule over all of physical reality. I have diagrams of this occurring in my book (using Penrose's model). If you want to see it, go to https://religionconsistentwithscience.com its the last figure on the website! I think you'll find it cool.

[Seriously? what kind of cosmologist? Because there are 3 of them:
1. Physical cosmologist
2. Religious cosmologist
3. Philosophical cosmologist]

Any kind holding a PhD from a reputable University, in Cosmology.

[Who can "substantiate the existence of god and the god of the bible? A scientist? Do you have any link to support what you state here?]

I said "may". Yes a Scientist. I recommend you read my book - https://godbornfrominfinity.com

Andrew66 · 11-13-2022, 03:22 PM

[What about atheist philosophers and stupid theists "scientists"?]

Sure.

To rephrase, Theists tend to argue for an ultimate beginning of physical reality, because they like to place God there (as a first cause Agent, Creator). Atheists tend to argue for an eternal physical reality (e.g. having an infinite time line) because then there is no need for a "first cause" Creator.

[I love Que in Star Trek. He is so evolved. I would like to be like him. Evolution maybe?]

Yes, in my book one of my hypothesis is that assuming a physical reality with an infinite past (like in Penrose's CCC theory) eventually a maximally perfected sentient being, over infinite time (an hence given infinite opportunity) would EVOLVE to a level that he/she/it could actually take control of or rule over all of physical reality. I have diagrams of this occurring in my book (using Penrose's model). If you want to see it, go to https://religionconsistentwithscience.com its the last figure on the website! I think you'll find it cool.

[Seriously? what kind of cosmologist? Because there are 3 of them:
1. Physical cosmologist
2. Religious cosmologist
3. Philosophical cosmologist]

Any kind holding a PhD from a reputable University, in Cosmology.

[Who can "substantiate the existence of god and the god of the bible? A scientist? Do you have any link to support what you state here?]

I said "may". Yes a Scientist. I recommend you read my book - https://godbornfrominfinity.com

Andrew66 · 11-13-2022, 03:56 PM

Sorry for double entry... still figuring out the site (its been a while)

DyingStrong · 11-14-2022, 10:03 AM

That happens to all of us at one point.

DyingStrong · 11-14-2022, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote

Sorry for the double entry... still figuring out the site (its been a while)

Quote:

Andrew66 wrote

[What about atheist philosophers and stupid theists "scientists"?]

Sure.

To rephrase, Theists tend to argue for an ultimate beginning of physical reality, because they like to place God there (as a first cause Agent, Creator). Atheists tend to argue for an eternal physical reality (e.g. having an infinite time line) because then there is no need for a "first cause" Creator.

[I love Que in Star Trek. He is so evolved. I would like to be like him. Evolution maybe?]

Yes, in my book one of my hypothesis is that assuming a physical reality with an infinite past (like in Penrose's CCC theory) eventually a maximally perfected sentient being, over infinite time (an hence given infinite opportunity) would EVOLVE to a level that he/she/it could actually take control of or rule over all of physical reality. I have diagrams of this occurring in my book (using Penrose's model). If you want to see it, go to https://religionconsistentwithscience.com its the last figure on the website! I think you'll find it cool.

[Seriously? what kind of cosmologist? Because there are 3 of them:
1. Physical cosmologist
2. Religious cosmologist
3. Philosophical cosmologist]

Any kind holding a PhD from a reputable University, in Cosmology.

[Who can "substantiate the existence of god and the god of the bible? A scientist? Do you have any link to support what you state here?]

I said "may". Yes a Scientist. I recommend you read my book - https://godbornfrominfinity.com

I understand that you are promoting your book and of course, you want it to be successful, and sell a lot. I, however, do not agree with you in looking for the truth in your book since you are a theist, even though you have mentioned to me that you consider yourself a freethinker. You are not a freethinker.

This is a real freethinker:

I wish you well with your book. But I don't want to be used by you to promote it.

Your book is for people who haven't decided about Jeebus, I mean Jesus, Allah, and all the more than 4000 gods that humanity has created.

There is no god, Andrew. You keep looking. I am fine. But I like to know opinions and learn from a different point of view. But obviously, your purpose here is only to sell your book.

Smellyoldgit · 11-14-2022, 01:47 PM

Andrew - you fucking old scrote!
Thanks for dropping by after oh so many years and for spamming your shitty book full of donkey-wank.
If you think I'm wasting even a single penny on your bollocks of a book, you're even more mistaken than usual. I'll probably end up fucking about with your links if you get on my tits too much.

DyingStrong · 11-14-2022, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Smellyoldgit wrote

Andrew - you fucking old scrote!
Thanks for dropping by after oh so many years and for spamming your shitty book full of donkey-wank.
If you think I'm wasting even a single penny on your bollocks of a book, you're even more mistaken than usual. I'll probably end up fucking about with your links if you get on my tits too much.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... To the point, short and sweet

Smellyoldgit · 11-14-2022, 03:52 PM

I was keen to leave a ~~sympathetic~~ scathing review of Andrew's bullshit - but B&N insisted I disable my ad-blocker. They can both fuck off.

Andrew66 · 11-14-2022, 04:33 PM

Quote:

DyingStrong wrote

Your book is for people who haven't decided about Jeebus, I mean Jesus, Allah, and all the more than 4000 gods that humanity has created.

There is no god, Andrew. You keep looking. I am fine. But I like to know opinions and learn from a different point of view. But obviously, your purpose here is only to sell your book.

The book is for Atheists and Agnostcs who require some kind of valid reason to take stock in a God, god or Ggod. A "valid reason" does not have to arise to the very high bar of proof.

If you understand the main point of my book, it is to outline how Nature - in combination with infinity (physical reality of infinite age, and/or size - a likely position which Cosmology is favoring these days), according to Science and probabilities, may manifest a god. That is nothing like the God(s) which mainstream theologians talk about which simply exist in an eternal sense without explanation.

As I said theologians do not like the "Ggod" that my book presents as a reasoned possibility, as nature essentially is posited as the root cause for "Ggod", rather than the other way around.

With due respect, it seems to me that you may be not be distinguishing how my assertions differ from standard theological positions (of illogical, "spiritual - aphysical" prime mover etc.), which you have become no doubt accustomed to.

Yes I would like to sell the book... but I also enjoy the discussions which flow around it. I was on this site for years doing just the same.

Andrew66 · 11-14-2022, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Smellyoldgit wrote

Andrew - you fucking old scrote!
Thanks for dropping by after oh so many years and for spamming your shitty book full of donkey-wank.
If you think I'm wasting even a single penny on your bollocks of a book, you're even more mistaken than usual. I'll probably end up fucking about with your links if you get on my tits too much.

Hi Smellyoldgit, nice to see you still alive and kicking!

Andrew66 · 11-14-2022, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Smellyoldgit wrote

If you think I'm wasting even a single penny on your bollocks of a book, you're even more mistaken than usual. I'll probably end up fucking about with your links if you get on my tits too much.

Jeez I didn't know you where so hard up for cash? HaHa

If you give me a PO Box I'll ship you a copy.

(seriously, for you it would be my pleasure)

Its pretty sciency though,,, lots of cosmology and stuff - might be a bit over your head? But I do try to dumb it down for the layperson so you should be OK!