01-28-2010, 07:06 PM
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#691
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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What the fuck does that have to do with indoctrinating kids into your favorite brand of religion?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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01-28-2010, 07:07 PM
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#692
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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I guess you're not going to address my last questions, thomas? Oh well.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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01-28-2010, 07:32 PM
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#693
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: inside a hill
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
Lily wrote
It doesn't happen, now, does it? Or don't you know what is going on (not going on) in the schools? Rethinking how we educate and who should educate is long overdue.
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Rethinking who we should educate? I always thought that "all American children" should be educated. Who is it that you propose we leave out? Kids of Muslim families? Scientoligst's kids? (I might tend to agree with this one) Atheist kids? Or is this more of a "poor" kids ought not be educated?
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01-28-2010, 07:47 PM
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#694
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Guest
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Quote:
antix wrote
Rethinking who we should educate? I always thought that "all American children" should be educated. Who is it that you propose we leave out? Kids of Muslim families? Scientoligst's kids? (I might tend to agree with this one) Atheist kids? Or is this more of a "poor" kids ought not be educated?
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Read the sentence again and see if you can figure out what I actually wrote. Then you can explain who argued that "poor" kids ought not be educated besides you atheists.
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01-28-2010, 08:02 PM
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#695
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: inside a hill
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
Lily wrote
Read the sentence again and see if you can figure out what I actually wrote. Then you can explain who argued that "poor" kids ought not be educated besides you atheists.
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I read slow sometimes
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01-28-2010, 08:09 PM
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#696
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Guest
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OK. It's cool.
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01-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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#697
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I Live Here
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chandler- Arizona
Posts: 14,227
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Quote:
thomastwo wrote
Cal, my previous offer still stands. I'll undertake any recognised psychological test that you are willing to pay for and will publish the results here. It's a golden opportunity for you to prove your theory that theists are psychotic.
Put up or shut up.
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No, YOU put up or shut up. My point is, that we evolved mutated PRIMATES CREATE ( what part of CREATE don't you understand" ) the MIND, which comprises the delusions of GOD & other schizophrenia moments, with our BRAINS not our arse. Till you PROVE to us, that your precious Zombie Jesus Himself INSERT those thoughts into our brains, you have NO LEG to stand on.
Sorry Thomas, you loose. The perception of ZOmbie JEsus is a DELUSION concocted 1500 years ago, Sorry to spoil your feel good baseless ancient thinking. We are in the 21st C not the 12th. Do you think theotard that if you are given a LOBOTOMY you would still believe in Zombie Jesus as your savior? or even if you were given LSD or PEyotl?
Sorry, but your brain will go berzerk...and you can't win when the FACTS are presented slapping you with an indisputable truth. 2+2=4 not 6 as you believe with your retarded Zombie Jesus beliefs. They are CRAZY.God is a CREATION of neurons passing WRONG information, due perhaps to DISEASE or TRAUMA. Let me hit your head & see what happens.
They'll CRUSH your delusions inducing Christianity-type schizophrenia that you are suffering from. Give it up. You can not win when you believe 2+2=5, which is what people infected with faith psychosis believe....it was OK in the Middle Ages not today.
I know truth hurts.
Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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01-28-2010, 09:39 PM
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#698
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I Live Here
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chandler- Arizona
Posts: 14,227
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Quote:
nkb wrote
What the fuck does that have to do with indoctrinating kids into your favorite brand of religion?
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Indoctrinating? why don't you use the right word..MOLESTING or CORRUPTING.
Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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01-28-2010, 09:41 PM
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#699
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,902
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Quote:
thomastwo wrote
Many public schools, at least in the UK, are not secular.
You keep repeating the idea that I want all schools to be religious in character, even though I've said multiple times that is not what I want at all. Perhaps there is some imaginary theist that you would prefer to be discussing this with?
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Perhaps I am assuming something that may not be not be correct: that you are looking for a backdoor into having our government back a Christian perspective that would be taught in all schools. So if this is not the case, and if you just want some publicly funded Christian schools...okay then. But I still say this is not practical, nor is it fair to other religions. It makes much more sense for parents to educate their children on religious beliefs at other times and places, with their own money. That's one reason why religions get the tax breaks they do. The government is not preventing you from practicing your brand of religion, but neither should the government support it. But I think you and I have talked this issue to death, and we just don't agree. At least you kept it pretty civil, which is unusual for theists here.
"If God inspired the Bible, why is it such a piece of shit?" (Kaziglu Bey)
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01-28-2010, 09:55 PM
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#700
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I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
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Quote:
We'll never agree on what the best education would be for our children. My solution to that is that everybody should get the education they want for their children funded by the state. Your solution is that only people who agree with you get the education they want funded by the state.
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The point of state education is not to cater to the whims of parents who are vastly unqualified to determine educational methods or curricula. It is to ensure that the citizenry have sufficient knowledge and skills to function successfully in the national community. Math is not included because most of the parents want it, but because it is necessary for every member of society. Religion cannot, by definition, be included in a secular system and excluding it from state education is not a whim of elitist atheists.
State support of "all" religions "equally" is not only logically impossible, it fails to be fair to the non-religious. To be secular is to not support any religion or combination of them.
America is supposed to be a secular state (according to its defining documents) and that is almost completely the case. Religions have found that they thrive in a secular state much better than in one with sectarian leanings, supports or preferences.
Finally, only things which are true in the context of the full community may be taught to children under secular state auspices. Any citizen can challenge a point in the curriculum if it is not true. It is no longer stated as fact that Washington cut down his father's Cherry tree and the tale is replaced as a myth. The content of religion, lacking facts to support the reality of its claims, has no place in a secular curriculum though acknowledgment of the existence of various religions and their historical influence, including their wars, are objective facts and are permissible. That is, the education to be provided by the secular state should include information about religions but not training in any religion(s).
If hypothetically, you and I set up the tax-funded, state-provided education so that your desires for the education of your children with respect to religion are supplied and, just to be fair, my wishes are also supported, you should know that my religion, if it is anything like yours, teaches that it is the only legitimate religion and that all others are evil and should be hounded literally to death. Regarding tax-funded education, my religion demands that each child receive 500 Euros daily from the education budget, an award for their religion class attendance. These are internal religious things so neither the no-longer secular state nor you are allowed to question them, to criticise them or to disrespect them only to pay their way.
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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01-29-2010, 05:58 AM
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#701
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I Live Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9,613
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Something else it is apparently ok to use my taxes for
Quote:
"I have no objection to a local congregation praying for their community but the Government should not be funding these sorts of sectarian police groups," he said. "If there's one institution that should be avowedly secular, it is the police force. Yet we have Christian, Muslim and Jewish police associations all battling for greater recognition and government funding."
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“'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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01-29-2010, 06:05 AM
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#702
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OooOooOOOhio.
Posts: 220
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Quote:
calpurnpiso wrote
Sorry Thomas, you loose.
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He is kinda loose, isn't he cal?
Irreligious:
Quote:
At some point, folks without the stomach for bitter discord will decide to throw in the towel while others will commence slapping each other with it.
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01-29-2010, 06:59 AM
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#703
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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01-29-2010, 07:06 AM
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#704
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I Live Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9,613
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“'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
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01-29-2010, 07:27 AM
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#705
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I Live Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Around the way
Posts: 12,641
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Quote:
thomastwo wrote
They should accomodate me, and I should accomodate them, because that's what leads to the most people getting what they want from their taxes.
By the way, UK state schools are not all secular schools. That's the point of the conversation here.
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bolding, mine
Thomastwo, could you explain to me why you felt it was necessary to apprise me that the topic of this conversation is the fact that "UK state schools are not all secular schools," and then emphasize it by stating "that's the point of the conversation here?"
Didn't this conversation evolve from my expressing mild shock that "UK state schools are not all secular schools" several posts back in this thread?
Did I not assert that this state of affairs in the UK sounded untenable to me and have I not since been continuing to question how you and other UK citizens could think it was reasonable for the state to be sponsoring religious-based schools?
I know what the topic of the discussion is.
I even know what your rationale is for defending the state of affairs in the UK. You've repeated it, perhaps, over three dozen times in this thread, including in the above quoted post:
Quote:
thomastwo wrote
They should accomodate me, and I should accomodate them, because that's what leads to the most people getting what they want from their taxes.
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Which brings us back to where we started and where, I guess, it should end.
"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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