Argument for God's Existence

[Egor]

Rhinoqulous wrote

*sigh* Really Smelly? It seems all y'all are handling this guy fine, but I'll take a whack at this cringe worthy "proof".

I haven't read through the majority of this thread, just scanned through a few pages, it seems the majority of Egor's responses are him whining that he can't plug his blog. So, Egor, if you want to have a discussion on your proof, you'll have to post here. I'm not going to go to your site. You came here, so post here. Don't tell us to go to your blog for responses. Also, I do not give you permission to repost anything I post here on your blog. It is here or nothing.

You don't understand copyright, my friend.

That seems to be a bit of a leap. I know I've never had precognitive or extra sensory events in my life. Neither has anyone in my family (to my knowledge). Nor have most of the people I know claim to have had such an experience. From what basis do you claim that most people have these experiences?

I know lots of people. Maybe they don't feel comfortable telling "you" about it.

Whoa, where the hell does this come from? In what way does a fermion or a boson resemble "mind" rather than "matter"? Last time I checked fermions and bosons are considered "matter". Also, how do you distinguish mind from matter? I myself am an anomalous monist when it comes to the mind-brain question. Are you arguing for an out-dated straight-up mind-brain dualist position?

The observer effect in quantum physics. The paradoxical dual-slit experiment. That sort of thing. Sub-atomic particles start acting very strange the smaller they get. What do they call it? That experiment where two sub-atomic particles act the same even when separated by space. Now they're saying neutrinos might actually travel faster than light, and for all our knowledge, we still can't seem to find the Higgs boson. We might. Who knows. But if we don't, we're going to have to think of a whole 'nother way that particles get mass.

Evolution would have an intended direction,

What methods? What is a fundamental consciousness? In what ways has this been found? You don't post any "proofs" to your argument, just makes a bunch of outlandish claims and POOF! God exists. That's not an argument, that's your belief (that seems to be highly unjustified).

I posted an article for the existence of fundamental consciousness on another forum. You can also read it on my blog.

Buh-bye.

[ghoulslime]

Eyegor, what is the largest object that you have ever put into your anus?

[Smellyoldgit]

Eyeore puts the goat in goatse.

[Michael]

So that no-one else has to follow him around to see his "evidence" (some links removed) -

Egor's Blog "Evidence" wrote

One of the most dramatic examples of God that is directly observable is the movement of microscopic animals.

When I took microbiology in college, one of our assignments was to view protozoa in pond water. What I saw was paramecium and other critters swimming around looking for food in amongst the tiny bits of algae. Then I realized something that changed my life. I realized I was looking at proof of God’s existence.

Below is a couple of links to short videos at YouTube of protozoa swimming around. Once you go there you will see many other videos offered of paramecium feeding on bacteria or algae. One thing to keep in mind as you watch is that without a doubt these little creatures display will, choice, decision-making ability, and discerning. All of this is evident as they search for food. All of this is what defines consciousness. I saw all of this for myself with my own microscope.

But here’s the kicker: These creatures are only one cell; they have no brain; they have no nervous system; they have none of the hardware we think we use for the same purpose.

In other words, their obvious consciousness must come from outside of them. They have nothing in them to produce it. Where else could that consciousness come from except from the very consciousness that pervades the universe? That consciousness is God.
...
...
But it gets even better. I turns out that since the 1950’s Paramecium have been shown to be trainable. That means not only do they display will, but they display memory as well. Keep in mind—they have no central nervous system whatsoever. And these creatures are not a mystery to us. We know everything about them down to how the atoms in the molecules of their cell wall make their cilia move. There is nothing to account for their consciousness. It has to be external to them. And if it’s external to them, it’s a pretty safe bet it’s external to us as well.

Does anyone else see the slight-of-hand going on here? I'll admit, this is genuinely fascinating. However, it's still a huge leap.


Now, I'll admit to not being a scientist, having very little scientific background to go on and learning pretty much everything as I go, but even I can see the problems behind "We know everything about this thing, we don't know how it does this, therefore everything in the universe must be of the same consciousness".
Mostly, for me, it would seem that if we say "we don't know how it does this" then we don't know 100% about the thing, there is still stuff to be learned about it, and merely assuming a quite radical end-point is your common "god of the gaps" argument wrapped up in shiny silver.



Oh, also for you Egor, I think you'll get a kick out of this if you haven't seen it already. I promise it's not a rude or crass link, and something I think you'd very much enjoy.

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/views/freewill.html

[Smellyoldgit]

It really does amaze me how delusional dickheads like E-bore continue to make such fools of themselves around the internet. Do they ever sit back, take stock and think for one micro-second just what their stupidity is achieving? – obviously not. This fool came here years ago peddling a really awful blog that was being slated by theists and atheists alike for its errors, misrepresentations, lies and downright asshattery – it got so much shit flung its way that he took it down. He even managed an entry on FSTDT – something to be really proud of!

He wrote and referenced similar poorly written crap on another widely read forum, received the deserved tirade of genuine criticism and abuse so he deleted much of what he’d written, getting himself banned. He tried again, failed – banned. He’s now back here with more of the same shit, getting ridiculed again whilst ignoring the well meant critiques of his claptrap from folks who could be arsed to respond civilly.

There is obviously an audience out there for this ‘quantum consciousness’ crap – Deepcrack Chopra has tapped into this plethora of weak-minded, gullible slack-jawed fools and makes a nice comfortable living out of it – but he doesn’t try and sell his bullshit to people with half a working brain – he knows the level of ridicule he’d get. So, E-bore, you’re writing to the wrong audience, we don’t buy your shit. You need to sign up for some self awareness training and fuck off out of here, or continue to make a complete wanker of yourself, which I’m sure you’ll choose to do.

[Broga]

I admit it. I must have been a real dumbass because I too studied paramecium, amoebas, hydras and the rest of Egor's critters and missed the key point. It never occurred to me that I was looking at evidence of god's existence. You need a special brain to come up with that one.

[Smellyoldgit]

Broga wrote

IYou need a special brain to come up with that one.

'Special' - as in window licking!

[Philboid Studge]

[Rhinoqulous]

This guy is a moron and a waste of time. He is disingenuous and only wants traffic to his blog. Ignore the asshat, he's not worth bothering with.

[Philboid Studge]

You don't understand copyright, my friend.

LOL.

Ah the Argument from Awesomeness rears it pointy head once again...

The universe is freaking awesome.
I understand fuck all about it.
Therefore God exists.

[Irreligious]

Egor wrote

Why the fuck would I lie to you? You need to believe I'm a liar so you can sleep at night.

You have no actual knowledge of an alleged creator of the universe, and I know you don't. Claiming you possess such information makes you a liar.

Now, you are, of course, free to believe anything that helps you sleep at night, but I know that you don't know what you can't.

[ILOVEJESUS]

External consciousness controls us all then? Why is god creating atheism? Is he unhappy with himself? One celled creatures that cannot think for themselves must be being controlled externally. That must be the same for us all too.

[Egor]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

External consciousness controls us all then? Why is god creating atheism?

To either expand our consciousness of God or go back to square one and start again. If atheism prevails, we will go back to the most basic of all humanoids and start over. Society cannot survive atheism. If atheism destroys society, we will reform religion and start again. Or we can destroy atheism and expand our consciousness now and go on from where we are.

Is he unhappy with himself? One celled creatures that cannot think for themselves must be being controlled externally. That must be the same for us all too.

It is the same for all of us. Have you really never had a precognitive experience? Haven't you ever had a dream that has absolutely no psychological reason for you to have it? Don't you marvel at how an idea comes into your head fully formed and you may spend months or years putting it into an orderly "English" translation?

[Irreligious]

Egor wrote

To either expand our consciousness of God or go back to square one and start again. If atheism prevails, we will go back to the most basic of all humanoids and start over. Society cannot survive atheism. If atheism destroys society, we will reform religion and start again. Or we can destroy atheism and expand our consciousness now and go on from where we are.

Doofus, you can't destroy anyone else's incredulity or nonbelief in what you believe unless you've got the goods to back up your claims. And, face it, you don't.

But I agree with you that religion will always be with us in some form or other. That is, some people (perhaps many, many) will be inclined or compelled to believe in things for which there is no concrete evidence, such as alleged, omnipotent gods, ghosts, sphagetti monsters, psychics, etc.

And, of course, there will always be the skeptics. There is nothing you nor I can do about that.

Egor wrote

It is the same for all of us. Have you really never had a precognitive experience? Haven't you ever had a dream that has absolutely no psychological reason for you to have it? Don't you marvel at how an idea comes into your head fully formed and you may spend months or years putting it into an orderly "English" translation?

No. Never had a precognitive experience nor a dream that was disconnected from my personal psychology. I do marvel at many things but I don't spend an inordinate amount of time marveling at this obtuse behavior that you have described here.

But, if you're genuinely curious about how the brain works, why not engage something concrete and study neurology instead of idly pondering that which you, obviously, do not understand? I mean, there are people who've already done the ground work for you. They're called scientists.

[ILOVEJESUS]

Egor wrote

To either expand our consciousness of God or go back to square one and start again. If atheism prevails, we will go back to the most basic of all humanoids and start over. Society cannot survive atheism. If atheism destroys society, we will reform religion and start again. Or we can destroy atheism and expand our consciousness now and go on from where we are.



It is the same for all of us. Have you really never had a precognitive experience? Haven't you ever had a dream that has absolutely no psychological reason for you to have it? Don't you marvel at how an idea comes into your head fully formed and you may spend months or years putting it into an orderly "English" translation?

I can empathise a little, as I used to think like this when I was "spiritual". I had realised organised religion was a crock, and decided to invent my own, basically. Why would god want to waste time going back to the beginning, aka atheism, in your mind? How can you destroy disbelief? That is all atheism is, a lack of belief in god. Surely god would be better off providing some evidence, a self portrait on a mountain made of mice pubes, than injecting "atheism viruses" into certain consciousnesses around the world.
Dreams are dreams and are all psychological.
I think you are struggling to battle the last vestiges of belief remaining in your mind. You realise religion as it stands is unlikely to be true. So you create an alternative ( that you unfortunately cannot see is just as unlikely), and stand proudly by it defending it to the hilt, the same as those involved in organised religions stick by their "older" superstitions. The next step dear boy is realising reality has no place for magic and super consciousness, our universe and reality is much more exciting than that. The possibilities out there are REALLY "infinite". Unfortunately this life is not. Short of downoading our minds onto super computers that are able to travel interdimensionally. Not sure we have developed that kind of tech yet.