From atheist to EX atheist . Hello.

[ILOVEJESUS]

ghoulslime wrote

I think it is high time this zombie-eater provided evidence for Creationism.

About time he showed us how you can try to be an atheist?? For a good 10 years don't you know. He seems to think that getting angry at a God who does not exist is atheism. I have already asked what made him turn from non belief in a God to being a Christian fundie. Maybe an answer will surface.

[Smellyoldgit]

I think it's about time the idiot fucked off.

[ILOVEJESUS]

Sternwallow wrote

Happy to oblige. The first replicating molecules were tiny and simple additions to existing complex molecules that could not replicate. There were probably many thousands of molecules that became able to replicate this way, by a simple non-complex addition, which for various reasons did not happen to survive. When some of these first replicators did survive for a while, only one strain of them has survived until now. Those first replicators were probably RNA rather than the more complex DNA. They produced DNA as part of their replication and, at some point, DNA became dominant.

Do try to learn about biology and evolution, won't you? It is fascinating and understanding evolution has been responsible for many of the medicines and medical practices that you benefit from every day.

This has been explained to you before. Those "constants" were certainly not chosen to make our life possible; they do not control nature, they are empirically discovered attributes of it. They are no more "fine tuned" than is the value of Pi.

There is no reason to believe that the "constants" were "fine tuned" because there are plausible, non-intentional alternatives including the anthropic principle and multiverse. It may also be found, when the GUT is finally developed, that the "constants" are interdependent and cannot have different values, as many people imagine.

An analog to the fine tuning question is:
what kind of universe would you get if someone (the Creator) had made "3" be "15" instead. How far can you tweak the value of "3" and still have a universe that supports life?

Self-ordering systems of which there are many in nature and in mathematics, transition from less complex to more complex without a conscious intervenor. In particular, evolution has repeatedly demonstrated that new inheritable traits can be added, old ones removed and existing ones modified simply by selection from multiple population generations.

You have once again stolen my thunder Stern. Yet you say it better than I could , so well done. You could also add here, that the multi verse THEORY advocates that at some point with basically infinite options, our universe is bound to crop up without need of a creator. Also what ceated this complex creator of his in the first place. You know, as evey picture has an artist and all that.

[Ex Atheist]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

About time he showed us how you can try to be an atheist?? For a good 10 years don't you know. He seems to think that getting angry at a God who does not exist is atheism. I have already asked what made him turn from non belief in a God to being a Christian fundie. Maybe an answer will surface.

1. We are not focusing on evidence for God (which you dont want to seriously consider anyway). If you were serious, you wouldnt be a proclaimed atheist , and you would have done a diligent research on this issue which is of the greatest of importance to your personal life and being (without kicking back and expecting others to be at your beckon call) .

2. If i wasnt clear enough why i turned from atheism to being a Christian, then i apologize. The specific reason was because I could no longer go on duping myself that non intelligence and non personal processes (blind random chances) were responsible for everything ...plus.... I was getting morally convicted as to my chosen atheist lifestyle which i tried to suppress . In short then, rationality and my moral conscience got the better of me ; in reality, it was actually the power of God trying to break thru in my life. It is the same for all who are able to abandon atheism providing the veneer isnt too built up making it impenetratable ; God is trying to get thru to all of our hearts but we have the option of vetoing that or recieving it. This is why atheism is in essence evil, to oneself ... because it keeps One from realizing their real ultimate purpose in being alive at this point in history (to experience God and grow in his knowledge and love which culminates in eternity with him) . Regards.

[Ex Atheist]

ILOVEJESUS wrote

You have once again stolen my thunder Stern. Yet you say it better than I could , so well done. You could also add here, that the multi verse THEORY advocates that at some point with basically infinite options, our universe is bound to crop up without need of a creator. Also what ceated this complex creator of his in the first place. You know, as evey picture has an artist and all that.

By saying what you did, you indicate that atheism cant be supported and that its just a matter of time until it can be . Im glad you put THEORY in capital letters and i applaud you for that. Instead of focusing on desperate philosophies which are unproven like Multi-universes , multiple big bangs, and the like.....why not focus on what WE DO HAVE presently with its incredible tweaking and ultra-complexity and seeing which construct best fits the evidence (atheism or theism) ? Its only your personal ulterior motives that keep you glued to atheism and certainly not the 'rational, vast evidences' . This is the charade i used to play too when i was a proclaimed 'atheist' .

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

1. Im not asking you to show me a personal theistic Creator does or does not exist

Of course, you are. That's what you and practically every theist who comes here winds up doing. You have no evidence for you what you assert and, instead of acknowledging it, you demand that we provide evidence for your lack of evidence. It's a maddeningly stupid ploy that effectively puts an end to all reasonable conversation.

Ex Atheist wrote

Im asking you to show me your high-held belief in the atheistic constructs of how naturalism and materialism ARE responsible for everything including that which i mentioned above.

And I already told you to take a few science courses. And a course in logic, while you're at it. I mean, really, how can we possibly know about any alleged thing that is not natural or that lacks material substance of any kind? Think! If there are answers to be gained from your overly broad and, frankly, boneheaded question, they're going to be based on that which is contained in our natural world. Or else, we won't have material access to it.

Ex Atheist wrote

2. It seems that you DO know that non intelligence , non will, and non purpose are whats behind our cosmos and the many millions of life forms on earth because you 'know' that there is no personal creator behind it (which is the mantra in atheism) .

No. I merely claim that I don't believe there is a "personal creator" behind existence. Why? I keep saying: There is no evidence for it.

I readily concede that an intelligent, albeit invisible giant rhino that escapes human detection could, unbeknownst to us, be responsible for existence, or an invisible, undetectable but all powerful frog, goat, chicken or the magic white man you think is control. There is no way to know if any of these allegations are not in existence in a realm that is beyond our detection. But there's no evidence that they are.

Ex Atheist wrote

So please tell us the scientific evidence that supports atheistic naturalism and materialism for the things which i mentioned above. Afterall, if you concede that nobody knows , then why is atheism true and reasonable to follow ?

Atheism is not "truth." It is a lack of belief in an asserted God or gods. Given the lack of evidence for an asserted God or gods, it's reasonable to not believe in them.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

Im asking you to PROVE that atheist constructs of materialism and naturalism which you DO believe in and think are credible ; Im asking you to prove a positive -- not that God does not exist. Please list your evidence which is why you choose atheism instead of another religion. Afterall, it isnt faith-based it is ???

So, because I don't believe in your invisible god, the existence for which there no evidence, I'm indulging a religion?

OK. I'll call my, um, religion, reality then. Still doesn't require any faith on my part to not acknowledge things that are not in evidence, like your alleged god.

[Irreligious]

Smellyoldgit wrote

I think it's about time the idiot fucked off.

I don't think he will anytime soon. And don't bother asking us to ignore him. Past experience should tell us that it ain't gonna happen. Sadly, some of us are addicted to the challenge of seeing how many different ways there are to argue with these fools.

[Smellyoldgit]

Irreligious wrote

And don't bother asking us to ignore him.

Oh, I know there's absolutely no chance of that! Some of us love to watch and take in the one-way arguments, but at least the crap from our new troll won't pollute the rest of our abode.

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

Of course, you are. That's what you and practically every theist who comes here winds up doing. You have no evidence for you what you assert and, instead of acknowledging it, you demand that we provide evidence for your lack of evidence. It's a maddeningly stupid ploy that effectively puts an end to all reasonable conversation.


And I already told you to take a few science courses. And a course in logic, while you're at it. I mean, really, how can we possibly know about any alleged thing that is not natural or that lacks material substance of any kind? Think! If there are answers to be gained from your overly broad and, frankly, boneheaded question, they're going to be based on that which is contained in our natural world. Or else, we won't have material access to it.


No. I merely claim that I don't believe there is a "personal creator" behind existence. Why? I keep saying: There is no evidence for it.

I readily concede that an intelligent, albeit invisible giant rhino that escapes human detection could, unbeknownst to us, be responsible for existence, or an invisible, undetectable but all powerful frog, goat, chicken or the magic white man you think is control. There is no way to know if any of these allegations are not in existence in a realm that is beyond our detection. But there's no evidence that they are.


Atheism is not "truth." It is a lack of belief in an asserted God or gods. Given the lack of evidence for an asserted God or gods, it's reasonable to not believe in them.

In order.....

1. Im asking you to elaborate on your assertions of what you DO believe in...not what I believe in. If you say there is no personal theistic Creator, then please give evidence for the only other alternative : The atheistic construct that a personal universe can come from non intelligence, be non willed, be without purpose, come about by pure accidents of materialism, and how these non personal processes and things can evolve into the highly personal. Stop trying to weasel out of it and just show the evidence for atheism which would make any reasonable individual a Proponent .

2. Ive taken more than a few science courses , and have discussed and debated many atheists on the web and in person....and ive yet to have anyone show why atheism constructs for a worldview are tenable and make good rational s ense.. You seem to be up on your atheism, so, I was hoping youd be able to offer more than trying to wiggle out of it.

3. Why dont you believe there is a personal Creator behind the personal ? How does it occur from rocks, dirt, raw materials, an explosion over time ? How does a rock eventually provide abstract thinking for instance ?

4. How come you are incapable of detecting that which constitutes a purposed design or willful engineering in a myriad of complex things on earth...when you wouldnt hesitate at concluding a few rocks layed on top of one another at Stonehenge came from intelligent people ?

5. IF atheism isnt truth, then you follow a non truth. I thought atheists followed their secular religion because it was based on complete truth and rationality (?)

6. What painstaking steps have you taken to eliminate the need for a personal Creator based on atheistic evidence ? Why arent specified instructions as found in a DNA molecule (to the level of completity of the workings of a major city) not an example of personal input ? Can you provide examples of how highly complex information can come from raw materials naturally by non intelligence ? WHy is it 'reasonable' to think this definitive complex information just popped into existence naturally ?

Are you positive that your personal lifestyle choices dont automatically discount a personal theistic Creator being in charge ? If we only have a material universe , then there are no moral absolutes are there ... and the sky is the limit . No ?

[Davin]

Ex Atheist wrote

Is there an atheist in here who can defend their position as rational , by properly answering what is already on the table as follows :

I assume you can tell that things such as the DNA molecule is anything but simple and has been compared to the complexity of the infrastructure of any major city ... so could you please tell us by what atheistic natural event or process the DNA molecule came about fully formed and functioning ?

By no atheistic natural event or process. For someone who was an atheist for ten years, you don't even understand the word.

Ex Atheist wrote

As a bonus , can you please tell us by what atheistic natural event or process, the 150 plus Physics Constants came into existence with the Universe which are ALL required to work collaboratively so earth can be here so we can live on this planet ?

Nothing atheistic about it.

Ex Atheist wrote

If you dont think these represent willful design and engineering, then tell us what non willful mechanism brought each example into existence in a fully functioning way ; if you DO think these represent willful design and engineering , then please give us other like examples of complex enormity that didnt require any personal intelligent input . Please dont refer me to read a book or do a google...id like to hear YOU support your atheistic belief since you think it is rational while calling theism irrational .

False dichotomy and/or argument from ignorance, as a bonus I'll let you decide which fallacy you're committing here. I highly doubt you where an atheist that converted to believing in delusions of grandeur from the imagination of ancient, ignorant goat fuckers. At most I'll accept that you're an idiot that claimed to be an atheist but never fully understood even the basic meaning of the word "atheist." If you were actually an atheist then started believing in mythology, then I'm glad for it, right now atheists are statistically more intelligent than theists and I'm sure that your contribution was hurting more than helping.

[Irreligious]

Ex Atheist wrote

In order.....

1. Im asking you to elaborate on your assertions of what you DO believe in...not what I believe in. If you say there is no personal theistic Creator, then please give evidence for the only other alternative : The atheistic construct that a personal universe can come from non intelligence, be non willed, be without purpose, come about by pure accidents of materialism, and how these non personal processes and things can evolve into the highly personal. Stop trying to weasel out of it and just show the evidence for atheism which would make any reasonable individual a Proponent .

2. Ive taken more than a few science courses , and have discussed and debated many atheists on the web and in person....and ive yet to have anyone show why atheism constructs for a worldview are tenable and make good rational s ense.. You seem to be up on your atheism, so, I was hoping youd be able to offer more than trying to wiggle out of it.

3. Why dont you believe there is a personal Creator behind the personal ? How does it occur from rocks, dirt, raw materials, an explosion over time ? How does a rock eventually provide abstract thinking for instance ?

4. How come you are incapable of detecting that which constitutes a purposed design or willful engineering in a myriad of complex things on earth...when you wouldnt hesitate at concluding a few rocks layed on top of one another at Stonehenge came from intelligent people ?

5. IF atheism isnt truth, then you follow a non truth. I thought atheists followed their secular religion because it was based on complete truth and rationality (?)

6. What painstaking steps have you taken to eliminate the need for a personal Creator based on atheistic evidence ? Why arent specified instructions as found in a DNA molecule (to the level of completity of the workings of a major city) not an example of personal input ? Can you provide examples of how highly complex information can come from raw materials naturally by non intelligence ? WHy is it 'reasonable' to think this definitive complex information just popped into existence naturally ?

I've answered all these questions already. I will not be answering them again. Not to you.

Ex Atheist wrote

Are you positive that your personal lifestyle choices dont automatically discount a personal theistic Creator being in charge ? If we only have a material universe , then there are no moral absolutes are there ... and the sky is the limit . No ?

My personal lifestyle choices are none of your business. And as long as what you do does not affect me or other innocent people, I don't care what you do either.

And, no, there are no moral absolutes to which everyone in the world adheres or is required to adhere. However, Earthly consequences for our actions abound.

[Ex Atheist]

Smellyoldgit wrote

Oh, I know there's absolutely no chance of that! Some of us love to watch and take in the one-way arguments, but at least the crap from our new troll won't pollute the rest of our abode.

Just enjoying a freindly chat about the faith based secular religion I spent so much time in. And to have you offer support for your closely held atheistic constructs .

[Ex Atheist]

Irreligious wrote

I've answered all these questions already. I will not be answering them again. Not to you.


My personal lifestyle choices are none of your business. And as long as what you do does not affect me or other innocent people, I don't care what you do either.

And, no, there are no moral absolutes to which everyone in the world adheres or is required to adhere. However, Earthly consequences for our actions abound.

1. You havent given any proof for your constructs , so im going to go ahead and ask you to one more time. It doesnt matter how silly they seem....just list them then we can dialogue on them.

2. Ahh...the old atheist disclaimer of 'i can do whatever i feel like doing so long as it doesnt hurt anybody else ' . That was one of my favorite to use as an excuse to live however i liked. It sounds plausible , but is it ? The fact is : Because i live in a society along with you and immorality spreads like wildfire ... it DOES ultimately affect me and many others too. The benefit to living in a civil society where morals abound, is to protect the society from becoming a moral cesspool ... and EACH of us have a responsiblilty in that regard. Besides, Im sure you dont want to veer off the moral path which your Parents tried hard to keep you on, right ? If you did, then it would be showing disrespect toward them .

3. If there are no moral absolutes, then why would we try to hide and coverup our steps when we do something wrong ? And why would we EXPECT others to treat us with absolute morality and ethics ? Moral absolutes are the basis for human rights . ANd you couldnt know what was right from wrong without a definitive absolute standard ... you cant call a line crooked unless you know what a straight line is and looks like. If there are no absolute morals by which people are intrinsically endowed with, then there is no objective right from wrong...and Hitler was justified in what he did , and it is not objectively wrong to commit adultery or dash babies against a concrete wall. See how atheism constructs lead to social decay and an uncivil society ? Just one more reason why atheism is deterimental and evil at its foundation. You can escape from it if you want. You should because it is a pathway to personal destruction all the while having it feel good .

[psychodiva]

Ex Atheist wrote

Is there an atheist in here who can defend their position as rational , by properly answering what is already on the table as follows :

I refer you to the post directly above yours- and then to all those others above that one