"God" is not Omnipotent

[Choobus]

Tenspace wrote

Sounds logical. Where do I sign up?

Your local NAMBLA representative can sign you up

[Xans]

Sternwallow wrote

It is illogical for God to be able to change a perfect plan, that is, to change His mind. It is illogical for God not to know every detail of a plan that He made, that is, to surprise Himself.

Your argument is based on an unnecessary assumption about perfection.

Only by acknowledging something higher than Himself, an impossibility, could God be humble. One cannot logically be humble to one's self.

"A big man knows the value of a little coin". I would think acknowledging the value of someone lower then yourself and extending your hand in friendship none the less is very humble.

According to Hawking the universe is almost certainly finite, but unbounded. If so, its radius would be approximately 14 Billion years and growing, I think.

I see no reason to argue with Hawking.

There have been reports that God was mistaken, surprised, ignorant and regretful, along with that other list of personality flaws (jealousy, hatred, greed, evil etc.), all of them directly from the Bible. They must be incorrect else why worship rather than revile such a petty, puny, paltry god?

The "reports" are correct except for your evil and greed bit.

There is no necessity to stop worshiping a God just because he can be jealous or hate. Pagan Greek philosophy demands God be impersonal, emotionless, and unchanging, but the Bible, the "reports", certainly doesn't make such a demand. I see no reason to worship a God who has no personality, can't love, and who can't even write a new song. Greek philosophy has given us a lot of things but it's views on perfection and God are stupid. Emotions are not flaws Mr. Spock.

[Xans]

Choobus wrote

Yeah, not like the three-in-one man-fart-ghostgod who gets annoyed when dodgy snakes trick rib-ladies into eating forbidden anti-ignorance apples that he left right in their garden, and so he sends his son (who is also himself) to get crucified in order to prevent him (who is also his son) from sending humanity to burn in hell because he doesn't really want to have to do that but would otherwise have to for some reason. That's not stupid at all.

You're confusing far fetched with stupid. Worshiping an emotionless unchangeable rock is stupid.

[Xans]

calpurnpiso wrote

Xans wrote:

"Greek philosophy has given us some good stuff but it's views on God are stupid."

Belief in god, a delusion inducing psychosis, is in itself stupid and a form of neurological turpitude.

[Mog]

Xans wrote

You're confusing far fetched with stupid. Worshiping an emotionless unchangeable rock is stupid.

So are you telling us that if the rock had emotion, (maybe its the active ingredient in a mood ring), or if it suddenly got damaged (therefore changing it) , than all of a sudden, worshiping it wouldn't be so stupid?

[Choobus]

Xans wrote

The "reports" are correct except for your evil and greed bit.

An ignorant god is like a defective sex toy: allow it into your "soul" at your own risk.

[Choobus]

Xans wrote

You're confusing far fetched with stupid. Worshiping an emotionless unchangeable rock is stupid.

No, I am identifying far fetched with stupid. Let me be more clear: your far fetched religion is fucking stupid in all essential elements.

[just questions]

Choobus wrote

An ignorant god is like a defective sex toy: allow it into your "soul" at your own risk.

Someone is willing to be a bloody cunt.

[Kate]

[just questions]

Love the text.

[psychodiva]

I had to get the glasses out to read that - well worth it!

[Sternwallow]

Xans wrote

Your argument is based on an unnecessary assumption about perfection.

Whatever perfection is, God cannot improve on it and any change that is not an improvement either damages it or is ineffectual.

"A big man knows the value of a little coin". I would think acknowledging the value of someone lower then[sic] yourself and extending your hand in friendship none the less is very humble.

It would be if God were a big man and actually extended his figurative hand in friendship, but the best that we have been told or know about God has His friendship causing untold death destruction and torment to those who would gladly join in that friendship. I don't think that it is very friendly to create a pot with a crack and then claim to be acting justly while tormenting that pot for failing to function perfectly.

I see no reason to argue with Hawking.

If he is right, the universe, though finite, could have existed for all of time and so not needed a creator nor a creator's creator.

The "reports" are correct except for your evil and greed bit.

Do you think then, that an ignorant, impotent and otherwise unimpressive god is worth worshipping or even respecting?

There is no necessity to stop worshiping a God just because he can be jealous or hate. Pagan Greek philosophy demands God be impersonal, emotionless, and unchanging, but the Bible, the "reports", certainly doesn't make such a demand.

The Bible does indeed state that God is both perfect and unchanging. Granted, it goes on to catalog His mighty divine imperfections and major changes (the Flood was a gasser!).

I see no reason to worship a God who has no personality, can't love, and who can't even write a new song. Greek philosophy has given us a lot of things but it's views on perfection and God are stupid. Emotions are not flaws Mr. Spock.

I class hatred, intolerance, bigotry and jealousy as severe character flaws in humans or gods. We have seen no love, tolerance or nurturing emotions in a god despite competing claims made either on their behalf or to criticize them.

What I have seen so far of your (or any) god would be mentally unhinged to acknowledge, fear, honor, respect, obey, revere, love or worship.

[Sternwallow]

Xans wrote

You're confusing far fetched with stupid. Worshiping an emotionless unchangeable rock is stupid.

Not if it will turn on you and, in its infinite mercy, tear you limb from limb and flush the bleeding parts into a forever furnace.

[Sternwallow]

Choobus wrote

An ignorant god is like a defective sex toy: allow it into your "soul" at your own risk.

Even worse if it has GWB intellect and fresh batteries.

[Xans]

Sternwallow wrote

Whatever perfection is, God cannot improve on it and any change that is not an improvement either damages it or is ineffectual.

Interesting use of the word "ineffectual". In fact, God's changes don't improve on his perfection or damage it. They don't effect it at all because God's changes are a part of his perfection.

Whatever perfection is, it isn't set in stone, it's a matter of opinion.

It would be if God were a big man and actually extended his figurative hand in friendship, but the best that we have been told or know about God has His friendship causing untold death destruction and torment to those who would gladly join in that friendship. I don't think that it is very friendly to create a pot with a crack and then claim to be acting justly while tormenting that pot for failing to function perfectly.

I think it's friendly to create a pot with a crack in it and simply let the crack filter out the crap.

If he is right, the universe, though finite, could have existed for all of time and so not needed a creator nor a creator's creator.

If time is finite, "all of time" isn't all it's cracked up to be in the grand scheme of things. If time is finite, the universe's creation happened. Whether you call it's creator God or not, it was created by something amazing and partially, if not completely, beyond our comprehension.

Do you think then, that an ignorant, impotent and otherwise unimpressive god is worth worshipping or even respecting?

That would depend on whether God is the creator or not and how he is relative to us.

The Bible does indeed state that God is both perfect and unchanging. Granted, it goes on to catalog His mighty divine imperfections and major changes (the Flood was a gasser!).
I class hatred, intolerance, bigotry and jealousy as severe character flaws in humans or gods. We have seen no love, tolerance or nurturing emotions in a god despite competing claims made either on their behalf or to criticize them.

Whether you buy the Bible's "bull" or not, the God of the Bible is changeable and considered perfect none the less.

What I have seen so far of your (or any) god would be mentally unhinged to acknowledge, fear, honor, respect, obey, revere, love or worship.

To each his own.