02-11-2008, 09:19 AM
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#16
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Guest
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Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
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Really? Fuck, have I been wrong all these years.
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02-11-2008, 09:40 AM
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#17
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Guest
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Influence in the form of sexual encounters , perhaps. Or sexual experiences of any kind. Or sexual thoughts. Personally I wouldn't even consider coprophilia even a year ago. It's not an orientation in the sense that homosexuality is, but still.
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02-11-2008, 10:11 AM
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#18
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: prick up your ears
Posts: 20,553
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Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
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However, jeebus can cure gayness (just ask haggard). Truly, the Lord is said to work in completely unbelievable ways.
You can always turn tricks for a few extra bucks. If looks are an issue, there's the glory hole option, but don't expect more than ... tips.
~ Philiboid Studge
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02-11-2008, 10:12 AM
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#19
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General of the Attacking Army
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 12,904
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Does anyone know where evolution put my keys?
I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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02-11-2008, 10:15 AM
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#20
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
skribb wrote
Influence in the form of sexual encounters , perhaps. Or sexual experiences of any kind. Or sexual thoughts. Personally I wouldn't even consider coprophilia even a year ago. It's not an orientation in the sense that homosexuality is, but still.
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Does that mean you consider it now?
Homosexuality is similar to any other type of sexual desire in that it is not a choice to be sexually aroused by it, it just is sexually arousing for some people.
I couldn't even fathom voluntarily being covered in shit for sexual purposes (or for any other purpose), but I can accept that others derive pleasure from it, and I support their freedom to do so.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 10:17 AM
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#21
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.
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In the case of gay teachers, that is usually not the concern for parents. They are worried that the teacher will sexually abuse their son, not necessarily make him gay.
Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 10:18 AM
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#22
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General of the Attacking Army
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 12,904
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Quote:
nkb wrote
Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.
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They're not all predators?
But...but...that guy? That guy that Lily knew in Massachusetts? I thought he represented every gay man or woman since the dawn of man?
I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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02-11-2008, 11:44 AM
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#23
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Anecdotal evidence only applies when Lily uses it as proof. So, in that case, it would be true.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 12:45 PM
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#24
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
psyadam wrote
Hey, does anyone know what scientists have decided the evolutionary reason for homosexuals are? Just curious. Thanks.
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To address the original question of this thread, I think it's a logical fallacy to assume that every deviation from the norm is somehow beneficial in terms of evolution.
Evolution does not have a goal. Even if homosexuality was purely genetic, there is no inherent reason behind it.
That's kind of like arguing why evolution is making humans taller (on average).
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 12:52 PM
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#25
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I Live Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Around the way
Posts: 12,641
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Quote:
nkb wrote
In the case of gay teachers, that is usually not the concern for parents. They are worried that the teacher will sexually abuse their son, not necessarily make him gay.
Of course, that uses the ridiculous stereotype that a gay man is necessarily a sexual predator, but that's a whole different discussion.
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Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.
"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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02-11-2008, 01:10 PM
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#26
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
Irreligious wrote
Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.
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But the majority of the pigs are quakin' for the fully cured bacon, I would hope.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 01:15 PM
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#27
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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Quote:
Irreligious wrote
Lock up your sons, daughters and grandmas, folks, 'cause all men--gay, straight and bi-- are pigs. And that's why they're into porkin'. All of 'em, just quakin' for that bacon.
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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02-11-2008, 01:18 PM
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#28
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Guest
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Quote:
nkb wrote
Evolution does not have a goal. Even if homosexuality was purely genetic, there is no inherent reason behind it.
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Evolution does not have a goal, true, but I think it's a valid question to ask what kinds of competitive advantages a behaviour might convey (purely genetic or not) given that it is common in the animal world. You at least have to explain why that "deviation" is not heavily selected against. I took that to be the meaning behind the question.
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02-11-2008, 01:26 PM
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#29
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He who walks among the theists
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Big D
Posts: 12,119
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Quote:
whoneedscience wrote
Evolution does not have a goal, true, but I think it's a valid question to ask what kinds of competitive advantages a behaviour might convey (purely genetic or not) given that it is common in the animal world. You at least have to explain why that "deviation" is not heavily selected against. I took that to be the meaning behind the question.
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I'm no expert on evolution, so pardon me if I say something stupid.
I'm not saying it is or isn't an advantage, even though in the purely "natural selection" view, it can't be, since homosexual animals are less likely to reproduce.
And, would we necessarily see the selection process in the relatively small window that we've been studying this issue in the animal kingdom? It's not like we can go back in the fossil record and determine the sexuality of animals, and whether they became extinct or not because of it.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
George Bernard Shaw
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02-11-2008, 03:11 PM
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#30
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Guest
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My background is the same as yours, nkb. I guess the only thing I take issue with is the automatic assumption that natural selection must necessarily select against homosexuality. That would be like saying that natural selection breeds against cooperation, when in fact we see cooperative behaviour all over the place.
I also don't think it's a small observational window when you see a behaviour in chimps, penguins, etc, although I see what you mean.
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