US Islamic in 20 years? Seems a little alarmist.

[Sternwallow]

godless wrote

Islam certainly desires to take over the world, It is promised in the Koran & preached by the Imams. Sam Harris states in Letter to A Christian nation that at current birth trends, France will be majority Muslim within 20 years, & that's not factoring in immigration.

Once such European nations are muslim majority there WILL be clerics who seek to introduce sharia laws.

Whilst the majority of muslims would probably not initially be in favour of this, they will be pressured by their religious leaders to conforming. Probably, hopefully this pressure will be unsuccessful, but it will be applied.

It is very definately[sic] something worth keeping an eye on. I don't think Genius is being over-paranoid. The muslimification of traditionally Christian or secular countries is a concern.

Besides it's not just about majority rule, but votes. In Australia, as our polticians[sic] meet to vote on stem cell research, Cardinal Pell, (the Pope's No.1 man here) has 'urged' Catholic MPs to vote against it.

Thus even a small number of theists in parliament can have a huge effect on law making, as they may represent the number required to kill or approve a new law.

I do not think any Muslim group in this country is seriously going to say "Let's dump the constitution and slap Sharia law in its place". Like all movements, they will get a ruling here, a regulation there, even a stem cell research ban, reinstatement of school prayers three times a day,...until you blink and notice that Sharia is basically in place.

Here is an article illustrating this point:

Muslim students at the École de Technologie Supérieur no longer have to pray in halls or empty classrooms.

A decision released Wednesday by the Quebec Human Rights Commission ruled that the university failed to meet its obligation to provide sufficient prayer space.

Islam requires five obligatory daily prayers (at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and in the evening).

The École de Technologie Supérieur, one of Canada’s largest engineering schools, did not accommodate religious groups because the[sic] it is a secular institution.

Unable to obtain a room of their own, Muslim students prayed in stairwells. The official complaint, filed on behalf of Muslim students at the university, alleges that university staff removed prayer mats stored in open lockers and disallowed prayer in halls.

Other grievances include the posting of signs in bathrooms that said “foot-washing in the washrooms is prohibited” and refusal to officially acknowledge its local Muslim Students’ Association.

The commission requires the École de Technologie Supérieur to provide a prayer room within 60 days.

In addition, the Muslim rule that men and women pray in separate rooms will soon lead to demands for two rooms (at schools were Muslim women also attend). One school is being required to install footbaths specifically for Muslim students.

Granted this is in Canada of which who can understand? It shows the creeping disregard for religious freedom in the name of accommodation, tolerance and "respect". Very much like theists coming here, religious persons who attend a secular institution should not be permitted to convert it into a Mosque without similar conciliation for non-Muslim groups. The list goes on from there until all education is in the hands of people avowedly against any form of thought other than religious.

[godless]

GaryM wrote

Well. there's already two European nations with majority Muslim populations.(Albania & Turkey) Albania's population is 70% Muslim:

A quick google on adultery for these two countries shows that Sharia Law is indeed imbedded in these countries culture & laws:

"Albania, Bosnia, the Russian Federation, and Turkey still retain the death penalty on the books, but do not perform it in practice."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul2.htm

As recently as 2004 a bill failed to re-introduce the death penalty actually being carried out in Turkey.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3641026.stm

Whilst I do not wish to belittle the progress these countries may have made, there is still much to be done. From the articles it appears the main resistance to sharia law is fears it will disrupt international trade.

As I stated in my last post, I believe a muslim majority would probably reject Sharia law, however there will always be pressure from the Fundies to adopt it.

[godless]

Sternwallow wrote

I do not think any Muslim group in this country is seriously going to say "Let's dump the constitution and slap Sharia law in its place". Like all movements, they will get a ruling here, a regulation there, even a stem cell research ban, reinstatement of school prayers three times a day,...until you blink and notice that Sharia is basically in place.

EXACTLY! This is how the Fundies coerce the moderates, one issue/law/ bill at a time.
Each one timed to co-incide to current events. Wait for an event like the Danish cartoons or the Rushdie book, then introduce a bill against blasphemy. Once the critics can effectively be silenced, half the battle is won.

The original author mentions several of many steps that he believes will be taken in this regard.

As Sam Harris states the only people who seem to be vocal are white supremacists, which does not bode well. MP's will fear being labelled as racists or bigots & many will
simply roll over if they think that particular bill is not of major concern.

Peple just need to look at the Netherlands to get an idea of how 5% muslim population can affect the way the country is being run.

Sharia is being pushed on the population right now.

http://politicscentral.com/2006/10/0...ia_eruptio.php

in politics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

in their arts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_va...lm_director%29

There is no such thing as moderate islam.

People call islamophobia controversial--I call it common sense.

To be clear--I have nothing against arabs--or any other racial group...

but islam is a choice.

[Waddlie]

godless wrote

A quick google on adultery for these two countries shows that Sharia Law is indeed imbedded in these countries culture & laws:

"Albania, Bosnia, the Russian Federation, and Turkey still retain the death penalty on the books, but do not perform it in practice."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul2.htm

Excuse me?

In the UK, as an Englishman I may legally go to the city of Chester and shoot a Welshman with a crossbow. If I were a pregnant woman, I could urinate in a policeman's hat. Both these laws are "on the books" but are never performed in practice... am I to believe therefore that they are nevetheless embedded in my country's culture? Bullshit.

You sound like Bush talking about Iraq and WMD in 2003. You've already decided on your viewpoint and are now desperately looking for evidence to back it up. Perhaps you might like to start drawing your conclusions having considered the evidence, rather than basing them on prejudice.

[nkb]

Rocketman the Sequel wrote

Peple just need to look at the Netherlands to get an idea of how 5% muslim population can affect the way the country is being run.

Sharia is being pushed on the population right now.

http://politicscentral.com/2006/10/0...ia_eruptio.php

in politics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

in their arts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_va...lm_director%29

There is no such thing as moderate islam.

People call islamophobia controversial--I call it common sense.

To be clear--I have nothing against arabs--or any other racial group...

but islam is a choice.

I'm not seeing how this shows that Sharia law is being pushed in to replace secular law. These are very similar links to what genius posted, which also did not show any valid examples.

As I've said before, I agree that Islam is a very repressive religion, especially the fundamentalist versions, but I have no doubt in my mind that the combination of the liberalism, heavy emphasis on personal freedoms, and the effects on Muslims living in a secular society will not allow it to happen.

As long as we can live out the next 60 years of our lives without Sharia.

So far countries like Japan or South Korea seem to be in good shape since they don't have many Muslims within their country. If these countries start accepting immigrants from Bangledesh as a source of cheap labor though to help their economies, they'll be destroyed by Islam in 20-40 years or so. Japan is pretty opposed to outside immigration which can hurt them economically but at least allows them to hold onto their secular culture.

The other refuge is South and Central America. Mostly Catholic. And so far the birthrates seem to be high enough that even if Muslim immigrants started to enter the country, they could compete with them. For a while anyway. (3 children per Latin American woman vs 6 per Muslim woman.)

Forget Western Europe. I think they're going to turn into Albania or Bosnia in less than 20 years. Eastern Europe is smarter, but it too is beginning to see Muslim immigrants, so I'd say give them 30-40 years before chaos occurs. (Note that their secular destruction could accelerate alot faster with Turkey admitted to the EU when you have 50 million Muslims free to travel to the EU countries).

[Waddlie]

This is one of the most retarded posts I've seen on this forum in a very long time. I was gonna pick it apart, dumfuck statement by dumbfuck statement, but if there's one thing I've learned from reading this forum, it's "don't try to reason with retards."

[The Judge]

He is also a big

"cummer"

Waddlie wrote

This is one of the most retarded posts I've seen on this forum in a very long time. I was gonna pick it apart, dumfuck statement by dumbfuck statement, but if there's one thing I've learned from reading this forum, it's "don't try to reason with retards."

http://www.tomfoolery.nl/images/wanker.jpg

I assume that instead of post you mean thread, because if you didn't I'm sure you would have done the logical thing and quoted it, though your post is awfully retarded it does warrant your objection.

Seriously, you make this too easy.

You've gotta love "all graphs are straight lines" arguments.

"Since m number of muslims immigrated into country C in year y, in d decades that country will be overrun by muslims and DESTORYED!!!!11!"

I'll take obscene fallacies for $200, Alex. In fact, not all graphs are straight lines. If they were, the United States would be entirely Irish.

[Waddlie]

snap crafter wrote

I assume that instead of post you mean thread, because if you didn't I'm sure you would have done the logical thing and quoted it, though your post is awfully retarded it does warrant your objection.

Seriously, you make this too easy.

Isn't it about time we moved on from this?

Waddlie wrote

Isn't it about time we moved on from this?

Alright, I'll bit.

Why?

[Waddlie]

snap crafter wrote

Alright, I'll bit.

Why?

More to the point, why not? Is it really that entertaining for you? It's boring. So I forgot to quote the person I was responding too. Big woo. I noticed after I'd posted it, but given my post directly followed the person I was responding to, I thought anyone following the thread would know who I was referring to. I'm sorry I credited you with more intellect than you actually have.

If you really think stalking me round these forums pointing out my typo's and grammatical errors is making me look bad then you're welcome to continue, but please don't continue under the illusion that I actually give a shit. It makes you look like a sad, mean-spirited little shit far more than it makes me look the moron you think it does...

More to the point, why not? Is it really that entertaining for you? It's boring.

It's not NOT boring for me.

So I forgot to quote the person I was responding too. Big woo. I noticed after I'd posted it, but given my post directly followed the person I was responding to, I thought anyone following the thread would know who I was referring to. I'm sorry I credited you with more intellect than you actually have.

Awe, you're gonna make me blush. I must have credited you with more intelligence than you're worth; since the entire thread is idiotic, why would you focus on one post?

If you really think stalking me round these forums pointing out my typo's and grammatical errors is making me look bad then you're welcome to continue, but please don't continue under the illusion that I actually give a shit.

You obviously do, and I think this is the first time I've pointed out the irony that is your grammatical usage.

It makes you look like a sad, mean-spirited little shit far more than it makes me look the moron you think it does...

Hmm, did you just shoot yourself in the foot? Oh the irony is thick tonight.