I try to follow the Way of the Master

No, not what you're thinking. The master is, of course, Tenspace! I saw him a while ago on a forum called "Conservative Life" fending off a horde of Visigoths. Amazingly, however, he kept cool, turned the other cheek, turned away wrath with a soft answer and within a mere...eight...pages had them eating out of his hand!

http://boards.conservativelife.com/f...0-asc-105.html

So that's what I've decided to do on Bible Forums! I saw the link in this forum, and had a look, and finally decided to participate a little. Don't worry, I've had my shots from the Secular Web! I hope my new Christian friends won't think I'm cheating on them if I mention it on the Raving Atheist.

Mind you, I don't think I've quite got the hang of it yet. Some of them seem to feel that I'm just there to make fun of them. Not true at all! I think it's important for us to broaden our horizons. A most interesting experience. And I am an Interested Atheist! :)

Sorry, forgot to add the link:
http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46366

[a different tim]

I see Ten got promoted to Sergeant. He has more patience than I do.....

[Tenspace]

Geez, I haven't been there for awhile. I always felt like taking a shower.... really hot.... and scrubbing myself with sandpaper to get the stink off.

Thanks for the kind words, IA. I used to moderate a Mac vs PC forum. These guys are a cakewalk compared to the Wrath of Gates Disciples vs Jobs Acolytes.

[Sternwallow]

Tenspace wrote

Gates Disciples vs Jobs Acolytes.

Gates is the only deity worthy of having apostles.

Interested Atheist wrote

No, not what you're thinking. The master is, of course, Tenspace! I saw him a while ago on a forum called "Conservative Life" fending off a horde of Visigoths. Amazingly, however, he kept cool, turned the other cheek, turned away wrath with a soft answer and within a mere...eight...pages had them eating out of his hand!

http://boards.conservativelife.com/f...0-asc-105.html

So that's what I've decided to do on Bible Forums! I saw the link in this forum, and had a look, and finally decided to participate a little. Don't worry, I've had my shots from the Secular Web! I hope my new Christian friends won't think I'm cheating on them if I mention it on the Raving Atheist.

Mind you, I don't think I've quite got the hang of it yet. Some of them seem to feel that I'm just there to make fun of them. Not true at all! I think it's important for us to broaden our horizons. A most interesting experience. And I am an Interested Atheist! :)

It seems as though we have something in common. That's exactly why I'm here on this forum.

a different tim wrote

I see Ten got promoted to Sergeant. He has more patience than I do.....

so they've got ranks for "the army of gawud"?

Buckeyeman77 wrote

It seems as though we have something in common. That's exactly why I'm here on this forum.

I am a recent convert from theism, can you bring me back?

[Eva]

atheism is a person's natural state....theism is learned....

reconciled, you have not converted to atheism: you have deconverted to atheism, deconverted from theism.

[Demigod79]

Wow, haven't seen such hostility in a long time. A Christian friend of mine commented how rude atheists are to theists but the same stands for the opposite (and that forum is a prominent example). I haven't seen so many Satan arguments in one page. Of course the average theists don't realize just how ridiculous and dangerous the Satan argument is (it can be used against them just as effectively as on the atheist).

It is really amazing how ignorant theists are of atheism, although I think it's somewhat to be expected as they have no experience with atheism whatsoever. On the other hand a lot of atheists have actually come from Christian/religious backgrounds (at least most atheists I know of) so they at least have an idea of what religion is. Having been a long-time Christian, and having listened to both theist and atheist arguments against each other, I can definitely say that atheists are far more accurate in their criticism.

Oh, and atheists generall have more reason to be hostile towards religion. It's usually the theist who attacks the atheist first, whether it's condemning them with the fires of hell, or pestering them into accepting religious doctrines. I've experienced something like this myself, and the Christian group I came from were liberal. My sister and I were converting to atheism and my sister expressed her belief in atheism, and it was actually my father who was raked over the coals for it. He went camping with the others and they criticized him for bringing up "godless" children. He was so ashamed that he left the camp early. This rather infuriated me and to this day pisses me off. The way they criticize and condemn me and my family, simply for beliefs.

Of course not all Christians are so ignorant. I find that a lot of apologists do have an accurate view of atheism such as the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. And of course there are some ignorant atheists as well (those who simply attack religion out of principle). However, atheists generally put more emphasis on empirical study and analysis so they're much closer to the truth than most theists who rely solely on faith.

Those who actualy identify themselves as Athiests tend to have criticaly thought about the issue. You seldom find someone who actualy refers to themselves as an athiest who has not spent at least some time thinking about the topic criticaly (others simply say they are 'not religious'). As such they had to learn at least something about theism.

OTOH most christians or other religious individuals have not spent any time criticaly analysing their beleif system. As such they have never had to learn anything about other belief systems.
Hence all they tend to know is blatant steriotypes and what they were taught (athiests are devils etc.) to keep them 'in line'.

[Sternwallow]

While I have spent much time studying and evaluating religion, I attack it on principle as well as through the methods of rationality. This is not to say that there aren't ignorant atheists as you say.

I read somebody recently - Richard Dawkins, maybe? or on this forum? Can't remember - who was saying that atheism is not the point of it all. The point is to encourage people to learn, to develop themselves, to THINK. Then atheism will spring out of the habit of reasoning. Atheism that comes from another source - such as the person, for example, who was never exposed to religion - is weak, atheism by default.
You could think of it as the difference between two healthy people. One has never been exposed the disease, and the other has been safely inoculated.

I don't to say anything nasty at the moment just on the off-chance that somebody from there sees me and causes trouble. They seem like nice people, but they have this strange invisible friend they want me to meet. It's all very pecualiar...

Their forum rules prevent me from making a full case - apparently I am there to ask questions about their philosophy, not to proselytise my own - so I've been treading cautiously around. Best way to make friends.

Anyway, I'm not going to reach anybody if I just go on the attack like that, not when they're that deep in their...paradigm. If this were a debate on neutral ground, though, I'd be putting them on the defensive alright!

I doubt I'll be able to change minds, but at least I can leave them with a good impression of atheists.

By the way, two interesting points came up in the discussion. One person said that God would not cause miracles "out in the open", as in with amazing effects for all the world to see, because that would destabilise the laws of physics and cause widespread panic. I didn't give her the obvious response, but I did point out that even the smallest miracle, if proved scientifically, would destabilise the world.

Second, what do scientists think about the supernatural? My idea is that even though science has no tools with which to investigate the supernatural, it would still be acknowledged - if it could be proved. Just as James Randi would pay the million dollars if somebody could indeed, say, read his mind and tell him ten times out of ten which six-digit number he was thinking of, so science, if presented with incontroversible evidence that the supernatural existed, would acknowledge it's presence, even if it was unable to do anything about it.

What do you think?