This makes my head hurt :(

I don't believe it's anything more than a hoax.

Hmmmm - I've never seen these forums before, but I did stumble across another site calling itself The Flat Earth Society here.

Now, the stuff on this site is also hilariously funny in a delusional sort of way - but it's also a hoax. Just check out their short registration form for those who wish to join by clicking on the "Join the F. E. Society" box at the bottom left.

ocmpoma wrote

Hmmmm - I've never seen these forums before, but I did stumble across another site calling itself The Flat Earth Society here.

Now, the stuff on this site is also hilariously funny in a delusional sort of way - but it's also a hoax. Just check out their short registration form for those who wish to join by clicking on the "Join the F. E. Society" box at the bottom left.

That re-interpretation of the Michelson-Morley experiment is a good example of the sort of "same evidence, different interpretation" stance taken by creationists. :lol:

Victus wrote

Now, let's get some theists making fun of them. The irony would be awesome.

How so?

[Victus]

Lurker wrote

How so?

Beleiving in something which is clearly contradicted by the evidence. Try to keep up.

Victus wrote

Beleiving in something which is clearly contradicted by the evidence. Try to keep up.

You have evidence that proves God doesn't exist?

[Victus]

Lurker wrote

You have evidence that proves God doesn't exist?

The ineffective nature of prayer, the existence (and dare I say, dominance) of 'evil'?

A better question would be, do you have any evidence to suggest that he does, flat earth man?

Victus wrote

The ineffective nature of prayer, the existence (and dare I say, dominance) of 'evil'?

A better question would be, do you have any evidence to suggest that he does, flat earth man?

Flat earth man? Where did that come from?

I have evidence, not proof.

[Victus]

Lurker wrote

Flat earth man? Where did that come from?

I have evidence, not proof.

Tell you what, post all your evidence for God, and I'm sure the RA forums can explain t you why the earth isn't flat.

Victus wrote

Tell you what, post all your evidence for God, and I'm sure the RA forums can explain t you why the earth isn't flat.

I never claimed the earth was flat so there is no need to convince me otherwise. It would be like trying to 'convince' Dawkins that NDE is true.

My evidence? Just two for now - the effective nature of prayer and the existence of 'good'.

Lurker wrote

I never claimed the earth was flat so there is no need to convince me otherwise. It would be like trying to 'convince' Dawkins that NDE is true.

My evidence? Just two for now - the effective nature of prayer and the existence of 'good'.

ok ill jump on this. if ive misted someting its because i just clicked on this link.

You said the effectiveness of prayer?
How do you mean? The studies that i have seen have shown that prayer actually hurts.
If you remember the study on people praying for heart patients.
There was a slighter rate of complications after surgery for those that were prayed for.

Now id say thats just chance, but it definitly shows that prayer does nothing.
Now it may have a placebo effect but thats exactly what it is.

AS for the existence of good.
Even if good does exists, so what, how does that prove god?
Now personally i dont think "good" exists. We do have cultural and social ideas of what we consider to be "good". And in general that has to do with not harming others.


So what evidence do you have?

[Victus]

Lurker wrote

My evidence? Just two for now - the effective nature of prayer and the existence of 'good'.

Experiments have shon to be totally ineffective (zero effect) when the patient is unaware of the prayer. When they are aware and beleive in the validity of prayer, it has no more of an effect than a placebo (which is to say, no effect).

Which good, the good in the bible? Where is God's justice? Shouldn't children be stoned for their crimes? Wouldn't that be good? The presence of 'evil' is the absence of 'good'. As such the perfect 'good' we would expect to see with the existence of a omnibenevalent, omnipotent and omniscient diety is absent from this reality. So God is either incompotent, sadistic, or nonexsistent. This is exactly the kind of world we would expect to see if a God didn't exist.

Anything else?

Victus wrote

Experiments have shon to be totally ineffective (zero effect) when the patient is unaware of the prayer. When they are aware and beleive in the validity of prayer, it has no more of an effect than a placebo (which is to say, no effect).

Which good, the good in the bible? Where is God's justice? Shouldn't children be stoned for their crimes? Wouldn't that be good? The presence of 'evil' is the absence of 'good'. As such the perfect 'good' we would expect to see with the existence of a omnibenevalent, omnipotent and omniscient diety is absent from this reality. So God is either incompotent, sadistic, or nonexsistent. This is exactly the kind of world we would expect to see if a God didn't exist.

Anything else?

Regarding prayer, I prefer the Scrappleface interpretation of the evidence.

Regarding good/evil. I'm sure you are familiar with the whole free will debate. I'm sure you are familiar with the whole 'god has a plan and is working the plan' debate. Also, if there really is objective good and evil then explain how this can come about via natural means. If it's a made up human concept then we are arguing over nothing really.

More....the existance of a rational mind. Like the existence of objective good/evil, naturalism can't accout for it. Also, the evidence that physicalism is clearly false.

[anthonyjfuchs]

Lurker wrote

My evidence? Just two for now - the effective nature of prayer...

I'd like to see the studies to which you're refering, because the actual studies that I've read actually demonstrate pretty conclusively that prayer has no effect on external physical reality whatsoever.

And no, praying that your car will start in the morning doesn't count.

*Inserts key*
"Please Allah, let this iron chariot roar to life"
*turns key; engine starts*
"IT'S A MIRACLE!!! THE BEAST LIVES!!!"

Lurker wrote

...and the existence of 'good'.

Define "good." And please, do so without refering to your supernatural agent: ie "god is good" is meaningless.

anthonyjfuchs wrote

I'd like to see the studies to which you're refering, because the actual studies that I've read actually demonstrate pretty conclusively that prayer has no effect on external physical reality whatsoever.

Actually Victus made reference to the studies. Anyway, see my link above. I guess we just interpret the evidence differently.

Define "good." And please, do so without refering to your supernatural agent: ie "god is good" is meaningless.

I'd say good is doing what ought to be done in a given situation. I readily admit that determining what ought to be done can be difficult - but that doesn't mean that the concept of good is a human concept. On the flip side, if goodness is simply a human concept then what ought to be done in a given situation is completely up to me and me alone. I don't buy into that and I bet if a study was done it would show that goodness is not defined by me, by you or by any individual or group. If it's not defined by anyone or any group then let's just get rid of the whole concept and make life simple.