I no longer try to reason with religious idiots. They do love to be abused..... - Page 2

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 06:11 PM

Please don't fall into the trap of insisting that everything good is God's fault and everything bad is man's fault. If God created mankind, and a world for him (and her) to live in, why did he allow it to become so crappy? After all, isn't he all-powerful and all-knowing? Does he care about his people, even the lowly women? Hmmmmm.

theistic_sheep · 03-22-2012, 06:33 PM

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Stargazer wrote

Please don't fall into the trap of insisting that everything good is God's fault and everything bad is man's fault. If God created mankind, and a world for him (and her) to live in, why did he allow it to become so crappy? After all, isn't he all-powerful and all-knowing? Does he care about his people, even the lowly women? Hmmmmm.

So God is either a dictator of all things, or nothing? I think God gave man free will and man has been a total arse wipe with it.

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 06:38 PM

However, God put man here and created the world he lives in. So, he bears at least some of the responsibility, if you believe that. And, if he is the superior being, who is more to blame? See, how it breaks down? "God gave man free will" is a way of saying that man did indeed create the situation by himself. And, if you look at it my way, man created God, too. In his own image.

West491 · 03-22-2012, 06:40 PM

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theistic_sheep wrote

Those laws applied only to ancient Israel as a theocracy which has long since finished.

Didn't Jesus mention something about his not wanting to abolish the Mosaic laws but that he wanted to fulfill them? Or did Jesus mean something metaphorical?

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 06:43 PM

Remember, Jesus was a Jew. According to the story. And also a rabbi. So one would think he'd support the Old Testament..........

lostsheep · 03-22-2012, 08:04 PM

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theistic_sheep wrote

So God is either a dictator of all things, or nothing? I think God gave man free will and man has been a total arse wipe with it.

I do agree that people are generally capable of supreme arse-wipery.

But you are ignoring a key fact, which has already been explained to you. However, I will attempt to do so again. If your creator-god is all-knowing and all powerful, then s/he knowingly created imperfect "arse-wipes" or flawed beings that were bound to mess things up. Yet, s/he did this, knowing all the horrors that could and would result. So in this case the biggest arse wipe of all is the god that would do this, if such a god actually existed. Or are you suggesting that god is thinking: "WTF? I had no idea my creation could go this wrong!" Epicurus comes to mind.

Kinich Ahau · 03-22-2012, 08:16 PM

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Stargazer wrote

Remember, Jesus was a Jew. According to the story. And also a rabbi. So one would think he'd support the Old Testament..........

Incidentally, in the other thread Fakey gave me to a couple of Buybull verses. This one pointed out to me with the help of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible in Mathew 15 is particularly interesting.

It appears Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. But maybe he was just making excuses for not washing his hands before eating. Dirty fucker.

muse · 03-22-2012, 09:58 PM

Dirty fucker, is being too kind.

Stargazer · 03-23-2012, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Kinich Ahau wrote

Incidentally, in the other thread Fakey gave me to a couple of Buybull verses. This one pointed out to me with the help of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible in Mathew 15 is particularly interesting.

It appears Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. But maybe he was just making excuses for not washing his hands before eating. Dirty fucker.

I interpreted that as Jesus trying to justify his ignoring the hand washing thing, saying, well, here's another part of the Bible (Torah, whatever) we can ignore.

Perhaps I was wrong. Even as a rabbi, Jesus seems to have been flouting the Old Testament. Or maybe it's just another one of those contradictory things about the Bible that give one a headache.

Smellyoldgit · 03-23-2012, 04:31 AM

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theistic_sheep wrote

.... fundies are just the most stubborn of all bigots and it is hard to get through to them.

I assume you're active in other forums and in the real world to try and 'reason' with these bigoted shitstains? - or maybe you've realised it would be a total waste of your time?

Sol · 03-23-2012, 05:54 AM

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theistic_sheep wrote

So God is either a dictator of all things, or nothing? I think God gave man free will and man has been a total arse wipe with it.

True story about free will given to me by a chap in the know, talks to god and shit. Ye know the sort.... anyway apparently JC gets up to heaven.

He makes his way through the clouds to his dad who sees him.
"what oh Cheesy peesey me old son" sez god.
"Don't call me that dad" sez JC
"Fairy nuff" sez god "What's happening and shit down there in the monkey enclosure."

"Bit of a problem Dad"
"Whats that then son"
"Free will Dad" sez JC " "bit of a dichotomy"
"di-what-omy" sez god
"Fucks sake dad keep up, you invented this shit"
"Musta been a Sunday" sez god " so what's the problem with free will, cheesy.

"Well, the monkies are using it to think for themselves"...

" Yep that was one of my good ones" sez god "A bit of AI saves me watching them all the time"

" ye, well they are just making shit up and fucking themselves over each way from Sunday, down there. They ain't gonna be saved, so the whole fucking cross dangling gig was a bit of a clusterfuck dad"

"there you go Son, see how clever your old man is ?"
"How ?" sez JC
" I gave them free will, so that they can decide to follow, without question, my will or.... suffer eternal suffering in the Isle of Man"

JC looks at his poor senile mad fucking old dad, who means well but is, unfortunately, a sad dribbling buffoon. He gently places a hand on the sloping shoulder of his old, mentally retarded, fuckwit of a father and whispers in his ear.

"Dad, the eucalyptus is supposed to be for the Koala's, you shouldn't really be smoking that shit"

To which god simply jumped up and ran toward the design department shouting....."Irreducible Complexity, you little feckers !! Irreducible...."

and Jeebus did sigh.

Professor Chaos · 03-23-2012, 05:56 AM

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theistic_sheep wrote

Technically it doesn't. Those laws applied only to ancient Israel as a theocracy which has long since finished. I'm not trying to diminish the fact that brutality and murder occurred in the name of God and are printed in the very pages of the bible, but it is not true that we are still commanded to stone fags. Unless you mean getting stoned WITH fags.

Davin · 03-23-2012, 07:34 AM

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theistic_sheep wrote

A lot of what is said in the name of God is hot, steaming, and just came out of ...

Yep, the bible not excluded.

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West491 wrote

Didn't Jesus mention something about his not wanting to abolish the Mosaic laws but that he wanted to fulfill them? Or did Jesus mean something metaphorical?

Yep, Mat 5:17-18:

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17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Being as the Earth is still here, either Jesus is a liar or those claiming that the Old Testament laws no longer apply are lying.

West491 · 03-23-2012, 11:24 AM

How do you feel about Matt. 5:17-18, Sheep?

Sheep, do you think that the bible, being inspired by an allegedly omniscient god, provides a legitimate moral code for us to follow today?

Edit: Also, do you think that our morals are derived from the moral code outlined in the bible?

That's 3 questions I'm asking you.

divine zombie · 03-23-2012, 11:47 AM

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theistic_sheep wrote

So God is either a dictator of all things, or nothing? I think God gave man free will and man has been a total arse wipe with it.

There are no fucking gods you moron.