Hi

theistic_sheep · 03-22-2012, 04:24 PM

I am a theist, not so sure I am a sheep. Fairly liberal, and tolerant, I don't want to condemn gays nor do I think atheists are evil or immoral creatures.

I have an interest in the construction of the bible and how it has changed over the years. I don't think it is perfect, or inerrant, or even inspired (though parts might be) but it is a really interesting look at the history of religious belief among a select group of people over time.

That's me

.

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 04:28 PM

Hi, theistic sheep. What is the basis of your belief? Why do you believe what you believe?

theistic_sheep · 03-22-2012, 04:34 PM

I believe what I believe mostly due to perceived personal experience with God. I have nothing tangible or scientific I can shove in your face and say "hey looser, come with me".

I can talk more about my personal experience if you like, but I would be doing so just as a description and not a proof of anything.

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

I believe what I believe mostly due to perceived personal experience with God. I have nothing tangible or scientific I can shove in your face and say "hey looser, come with me".

I can talk more about my personal experience if you like, but I would be doing so just as a description and not a proof of anything.

This is the problem that atheists have with religion. We are asked to believe something based only on faith, without any logic, or concrete evidence of same.

If we ask for proof, we are told to "look at the birds in the sky, or the power of the ocean, or the complexity of the eye," and the expectation is the we will suddenly gape slack-jawed at something because it is big,/powerful/complex and assume that because it is so, it MUST have had a creator. This is a logical fallacy called the "leap of faith," that we cannot stomach. If, instead, the atheist is not convinced by these things, and says so to the theist, often the theist shows anger/disgust/hostility and then begins character assassination on the atheist.

We sincerely hope you are not here to follow that tired pattern.

With that said, welcome.

Eternal · 03-22-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

I believe what I believe mostly due to perceived personal experience with God. I have nothing tangible or scientific I can shove in your face and say "hey looser, come with me".

I can talk more about my personal experience if you like, but I would be doing so just as a description and not a proof of anything.

Hello. Call me sceptical but you misspell looser the same way that a resident nutter misspells loose instead of lose. Are you Ex Atheist?

Welcome anyway, look forward to hearing your particular take on the buybull and it's implications etc.

West491 · 03-22-2012, 04:56 PM

Welcome to this pool of heathens.

Why is it that you chose to come to a forum called "Raving Atheist" ?

theistic_sheep · 03-22-2012, 05:04 PM

No I am not Ex-Atheist.

I am also not asking you to take a leap of blind faith because a flower looks pretty. I think if God does exist, He should be able to make Himself known in a language that is convincing for you. Either He has done that and you have ignored it, or He has not done that. The first option seems to be a logical contradiction, which leaves me with the second.

Why He does not seem to do that for everyone I honestly do not know. The prevailing theory seems to be the hardness of the atheists heart, I am not so sure I believe that though I am pretty hard hearted towards the FSM and pink unicorns myself, so I sure as hell wouldn't be condemning others for similar lack-of-evidence based thinking about the Christian God.

I don't think there is a whole lot of rational evidence for God in the world so I am stuck with being honest and just saying "I believe I experienced this".

Why am I here? Because I'm really freaking bored. And because I want to see what this forum has to say about the construction of religious documents, because I think there is some interesting sociology underpinning it all.

Stargazer · 03-22-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

No I am not Ex-Atheist.

I am also not asking you to take a leap of blind faith because a flower looks pretty. I think if God does exist, He should be able to make Himself known in a language that is convincing for you. Either He has done that and you have ignored it, or He has not done that. The first option seems to be a logical contradiction, which leaves me with the second.

Why He does not seem to do that for everyone I honestly do not know. The prevailing theory seems to be the hardness of the atheists heart, I am not so sure I believe that though I am pretty hard hearted towards the FSM and pink unicorns myself, so I sure as hell wouldn't be condemning others for similar lack-of-evidence based thinking about the Christian God.

I don't think there is a whole lot of rational evidence for God in the world so I am stuck with being honest and just saying "I believe I experienced this".

Why am I here? Because I'm really freaking bored. And because I want to see what this forum has to say about the construction of religious documents, because I think there is some interesting sociology underpinning it all.

OK. Glad you're not Ex Atheist. One of him is enough. Why don't you start by citing a specific document. I have some background in that area and as a writer and storyteller, have some interest in the way mythology develops over time. You WILL need to accept the fact that I see the Bible as mythology. But the document can be discussed on a purely academic basis, certainly.

Eternal · 03-22-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

No I am not Ex-Atheist.

I am also not asking you to take a leap of blind faith because a flower looks pretty. I think if God does exist, He should be able to make Himself known in a language that is convincing for you. Either He has done that and you have ignored it, or He has not done that. The first option seems to be a logical contradiction, which leaves me with the second.

Why He does not seem to do that for everyone I honestly do not know. The prevailing theory seems to be the hardness of the atheists heart, I am not so sure I believe that though I am pretty hard hearted towards the FSM and pink unicorns myself, so I sure as hell wouldn't be condemning others for similar lack-of-evidence based thinking about the Christian God.

I don't think there is a whole lot of rational evidence for God in the world so I am stuck with being honest and just saying "I believe I experienced this".

Glad to hear that you are not Ex.

Anyways, my main problem with this seems to be gods choices. Hypothetically making the leap of faith that he exists, then why does he choose the people he chooses. There are plenty of people suffering in the world that think they have a connection to him, do they and he doesn't help them, or are they mistaken. Also what about all the people that he either doesn't connect with or do not have the chance to connect because they are one of the millions of babies or toddlers that die every year. What happens to these, presumably as a more liberal christian an eternity in hell isn't on the cards, so what is your take?

Do you also not think that as you state the more liberal amongst you are not just cherry picking according to what is acceptable in todays society. If so, why can you then disregard some bits but not others. If it is societal, then why give it any authority over your life at all when your own morals override the bible.

It would probably make it easier if you could give us an idea of what your definition of god is.

Stargazer · 03-23-2012, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Eternal wrote

It would probably make it easier if you could give us an idea of what your definition of god is.

Yes, theistic_sheep, I think Eternal's right. Can you tell us what you think God is?

Smellyoldgit · 03-23-2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

I want to see what this forum has to say about the construction of religious documents

How about - a load of nauseatingly irrelevant, antiquated bollocks. Distribution propagated to weak minded gullible fools by free samples, lies and ever more imaginative but totally retarded re-interpretations. Perfect examples of square peg, round hole syndrome - all should be reassigned to bookstore fiction shelves and carry a mental health warning for any stupid fuckers that think they're in any way important in the 21st century.

Irreligious · 03-23-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

... I want to see what this forum has to say about the construction of religious documents, because I think there is some interesting sociology underpinning it all.

Like what?

Edited: Nevermind. I see you've already answered the question in a subsequent post. Now I'm curious to know why you think atheists would share your fascination with ancient Middle Eastern mythology? I mean, atheists are not precluded from being fascinated by what gave rise to the Noah's Ark myth, but I'm not sure why atheists, in particular, would care.

Sol · 03-23-2012, 04:36 AM

Quote:

theistic_sheep wrote

And because I want to see what this forum has to say about the construction of religious documents, because I think there is some interesting sociology underpinning it all.

In a nutshell after extensive research on the subject, and with all things taken into consideration. Running it up the flag pole and seeing who salutes it, giving it a fair suck of the old sauce bottle.

I can categorically state without fear of condescension nor contradiction, that in essence and with all probability, not withstanding correlation of the known facts without evidence.

That in all likelihood it would appear that, with a rationalisation of all the pertinent facts, and without questioning the basic authority of the first principle.

It would appear that in actual fact. it is very much the case in point.

Which I believe should leave you in no doubt about it.

So.....erm..... there you have it.

Irreligious · 03-23-2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Sol wrote

In a nutshell after extensive research on the subject, and with all things taken into consideration. Running it up the flag pole and seeing who salutes it, giving it a fair suck of the old sauce bottle.

I can categorically state without fear of condescension nor contradiction, that in essence and with all probability, not withstanding correlation of the known facts without evidence.

That in all likelihood it would appear that, with a rationalisation of all the pertinent facts, and without questioning the basic authority of the first principle.

It would appear that in actual fact. it is very much the case in point.

Which I believe should leave you in no doubt about it.

So.....erm..... there you have it.

I concur.

Eternal · 03-23-2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Sol wrote

In a nutshell after extensive research on the subject, and with all things taken into consideration. Running it up the flag pole and seeing who salutes it, giving it a fair suck of the old sauce bottle.

I can categorically state without fear of condescension nor contradiction, that in essence and with all probability, not withstanding correlation of the known facts without evidence.

That in all likelihood it would appear that, with a rationalisation of all the pertinent facts, and without questioning the basic authority of the first principle.

It would appear that in actual fact. it is very much the case in point.

Which I believe should leave you in no doubt about it.

So.....erm..... there you have it.

Fucking hell, finally a post I understand.