Old 11-16-2009, 04:56 AM   #1
Christian4Jihad
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visit to the lion pit

I thought I would check out your site, like a visit to the lion pit. I am not sure what your site is about but maybe I will be like Daniel in the pit with a pride of toothless secular lions. I am a real open theist Christian minister, but not the kind of Christian you may be accustomed to. My motto is soar a boot in their nuts while they are waiting the nice Christian to turn the other cheek. I am about mutual reciprocal respect. I own a church and two non profit humanitarian missions that assists everyone, however the Christians get a piece of meat with their beans and cornbread, while the seculars only get bread and water. (just kidding).

Anyway I hope to get to get to know all of you soon and hope this will be an learning experience for all of us!

; {>
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:08 AM   #2
Smellyoldgit
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Just for a bit of Background Bullshit - I stole this from some tard site;

Things you might hear the God of open theism say

The following list of statements are not meant to be offensive to the Open Theist. They are meant to be both humorous and illustrative. Open Theism teaches that God does not know future events, that He can be surprised by them, that He can make mistakes, and that He learns what will happen as people make choices. Therefore, what kinds of things might we hear the God of Open Theism say?

1. Ooops
2. Doh!
3. Uh, oh.
4. Oh, no.
5. Dang it!
6. Shucks!
7. Let me get back to you on that.
8. Wow, that was a surprise.
9. I hope it works out.
10. Oh no, now what is he going to do this time?
11. No, I haven't heard the joke about the open theist.
12. Please, oh please, please, please believe in me.
13. I'll not do that again.
14. That didn't turn out to well, did it?
15. I'll try and get it right next time.
16. I'd answer your prayer but I don't know what is going to happen.
17. Hey, I just learned something.
18. Well, I can always go to plan B.
19. Well, I can always go to plan C.
20. Well, I can always go to plan D.

This is lighthearted, and I mean no mockery nor insult; but this is a way of illustrating the point that the view of God in open theism means God does not know all of the future and can even make mistakes -- otherwise, according to openness, God wouldn't have any regrets.

If we assumed that the god of open theism was true, would it bring you comfort to know that God learns, that God doesn't know the future exhaustively, and that He has to wait to find out what people will do? How would that affect your prayers to Him? Would it give you confidence in God? After all, what if something happens that surprises God and He is unable to answer your prayer? If God is hoping for the best, reacting to people, and working around them to make things happen, then can you really count on God to be the sovereign in-charge Lord of the universe? I think not.

This view is problematic and undermines the trust that we can have in God's absolute sovereignty. It is a reduction of the stature and abilities of God.

By the way, how many open theists does it take to change a light bulb? No one knows until it happens.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:50 AM   #3
Professor Chaos
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:53 AM   #4
Smellyoldgit
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Who? me?

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:57 AM   #5
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I know you do, Smelly. I'm asking our new friend.

I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:09 AM   #6
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Never heard of 'Open Theism' before - huh.

Quote:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
Charles Darwin.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:11 AM   #7
Smellyoldgit
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Same shit, different wrapper.

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Old 11-16-2009, 06:14 AM   #8
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*lol* of course - just amused to learn of yet another version of it

Quote:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
Charles Darwin.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Smellyoldgit wrote View Post
If we assumed that the god of open theism was true, would it bring you comfort to know that God learns, that God doesn't know the future exhaustively, and that He has to wait to find out what people will do? How would that affect your prayers to Him? Would it give you confidence in God? After all, what if something happens that surprises God and He is unable to answer your prayer? If God is hoping for the best, reacting to people, and working around them to make things happen, then can you really count on God to be the sovereign in-charge Lord of the universe? I think not.
I don't know that fallible necessarily precludes you from being a God. After all the Greek and Roman Gods screwed up every day and they were center stage for 500 years. The omnipresent / omnipotent thing is Christian.

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Old 11-16-2009, 06:33 AM   #10
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you must be really loaded, christian, if you own a church and missions....

welcome to our humble forum!

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected....That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.
H. L. Mencken
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:37 AM   #11
Smellyoldgit
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Quote:
ubs wrote
The omnipresent / omnipotent thing is Christian.
So, we've got made-up gods - with extra, superimposed, made-up qualities - additions, edits and re-interpretations for over 2000 years.
Yup, I'll stick with my current judgement - a load of old made-up bullshit!

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Old 11-16-2009, 07:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Christian4Jihad wrote View Post
I thought I would check out your site, like a visit to the lion pit.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:28 AM   #13
ubs
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Christian4Jihad, if you can demonstrate proof of a super natural entity I'm in. He/She doesn't have to be perfect or all knowing. I'm good with Majin Buu if that's all you've got.

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Old 11-16-2009, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Christian4Jihad wrote View Post
I thought I would check out your site, like a visit to the lion pit. I am not sure what your site is about but maybe I will be like Daniel in the pit with a pride of toothless secular lions. I am a real open theist Christian minister, but not the kind of Christian you may be accustomed to. My motto is soar a boot in their nuts while they are waiting the nice Christian to turn the other cheek. I am about mutual reciprocal respect. I own a church and two non profit humanitarian missions that assists everyone, however the Christians get a piece of meat with their beans and cornbread, while the seculars only get bread and water. (just kidding).

Anyway I hope to get to get to know all of you soon and hope this will be an learning experience for all of us!

; {>
Welcome if you are sincere and not just here to poke sticks or preach. Few theists who come this way have been inclined to turn any cheeks so no worry there.

If you want argument instead of discussion, prepare for rough and tumble exchanges. About the only sacred principle here is free speech: blasphemy, body parts and functions are fair game.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:20 PM   #15
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I don't know that fallible necessarily precludes you from being a God. After all the Greek and Roman Gods screwed up every day and they were center stage for 500 years. The omnipresent / omnipotent thing is Christian.
Yes, exactly, being fallible, emotional, weak, stupid, clumsy and evil applies to the Christian God. It is relevant to the Greek gods as well, that man, the creator of all gods, cannot transcend his own limitations. Only in engineering and technology has man been able to supersede his own mental and physical weaknesses.

A few additional things such a lemon of a God might say:
21) Adam, where are you?
22) I regret having made mankind which has turned out so bad
23) I want to wipe them out but I had better destroy all that lives on the whole planet just to make sure.
24) Now, I'll take another shot at making a humanity that will again turn out poorly.
25) Guts just would not look right without an appendix.
26) It costs a lot to run all those stars. Did I remember to pay the power bill?


"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
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