Meat Machine

Well, I just talked with him. It seems as though he's completely dropped the idea. I can't say that I had anything to do with it (or if he is just being a dick, for that matter) but we talked mostly about the implications of mixing electronics and neurology.

One interesting point was in the emerging ability for people to build artificial retinas for people who are legally blind. The potential is that such implants could respond far more quickly and with greater range of perception than the biological version (which have to "recharge" their Na/K pumps to build and action potential, etc.). Then, what if you can do the same thing for the rest of the brain? What does that do for our entire perception of reality? Rhinoq?

Well, I just talked with him. It seems as though he's completely dropped the idea. I can't say that I had anything to do with it (or if he is just being a dick, for that matter) but we talked mostly about the implications of mixing electronics and neurology.

One interesting point was in the emerging ability for people to build artificial retinas for people who are legally blind. The potential is that such implants could respond far more quickly and with greater range of perception than the biological version (which have to "recharge" their Na/K pumps to build and action potential, etc.). Then, what if you can do the same thing for the rest of the brain? What does that do for our entire perception of reality? Rhinoq?

[Rhinoqulous]

whoneedscience wrote

Well, I just talked with him. It seems as though he's completely dropped the idea. I can't say that I had anything to do with it (or if he is just being a dick, for that matter) but we talked mostly about the implications of mixing electronics and neurology.

One interesting point was in the emerging ability for people to build artificial retinas for people who are legally blind. The potential is that such implants could respond far more quickly and with greater range of perception than the biological version (which have to "recharge" their Na/K pumps to build and action potential, etc.). Then, what if you can do the same thing for the rest of the brain? What does that do for our entire perception of reality? Rhinoq?

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Long Answer: No long answer for right now. It's a holiday for me! I'm on my sixth beer, and it's getting hard to hold a train of thought (not to mention typing)!

[Rhinoqulous]

whoneedscience wrote

Well, I just talked with him. It seems as though he's completely dropped the idea. I can't say that I had anything to do with it (or if he is just being a dick, for that matter) but we talked mostly about the implications of mixing electronics and neurology.

One interesting point was in the emerging ability for people to build artificial retinas for people who are legally blind. The potential is that such implants could respond far more quickly and with greater range of perception than the biological version (which have to "recharge" their Na/K pumps to build and action potential, etc.). Then, what if you can do the same thing for the rest of the brain? What does that do for our entire perception of reality? Rhinoq?

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Long Answer: No long answer for right now. It's a holiday for me! I'm on my sixth beer, and it's getting hard to hold a train of thought (not to mention typing)!

Rhinoqulous wrote

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Long Answer: No long answer for right now. It's a holiday for me! I'm on my sixth beer, and it's getting hard to hold a train of thought (not to mention typing)!

:lol: Fair enough. Enjoy your day.

When you have a chance, though, where do you get the idea that there is anything even comparable to software in the human brain? I mean, it seems reasonable enough to make the assumption based off our conception of computing, but it's still an assumption as I see it. Neurons are capable of changing their synapses, so drawing a direct parallel would seem fallacious. Where would the programming even come from? Where would it reside? Couldn't that be changed just as easily?

Rhinoqulous wrote

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Long Answer: No long answer for right now. It's a holiday for me! I'm on my sixth beer, and it's getting hard to hold a train of thought (not to mention typing)!

:lol: Fair enough. Enjoy your day.

When you have a chance, though, where do you get the idea that there is anything even comparable to software in the human brain? I mean, it seems reasonable enough to make the assumption based off our conception of computing, but it's still an assumption as I see it. Neurons are capable of changing their synapses, so drawing a direct parallel would seem fallacious. Where would the programming even come from? Where would it reside? Couldn't that be changed just as easily?

[Sternwallow]

Bighead wrote

I'm not completely sure if I am addressing what you are talking about here in regards to neuron connections or being bodeled in another medium, however a few years ago, I was watching something about scientists who have actually grown brain cells on microchips. I am trying to find some information on the study right now. I will post when I find it, or if this has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying, I'll just stop looking...

Also, about whether or not computers can make art, that is appreciable to human standards, just take a look at fractals. I've seen some pretty amazing pictures that were done completely with computers (albeit with the input of the mathematical formulas by humans)

You are right, they are beautiful. More than that, they are provebly infinitely complex (not just the piddling complexity of this universe of ours) and they arise from the formula "X = X^2 + c where X[0] = 0+0i, c = x+yi". That's it, the entire thing, the "mathematical formulas input by humans". (Mandelbrot set)

[Sternwallow]

Bighead wrote

I'm not completely sure if I am addressing what you are talking about here in regards to neuron connections or being bodeled in another medium, however a few years ago, I was watching something about scientists who have actually grown brain cells on microchips. I am trying to find some information on the study right now. I will post when I find it, or if this has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying, I'll just stop looking...

Also, about whether or not computers can make art, that is appreciable to human standards, just take a look at fractals. I've seen some pretty amazing pictures that were done completely with computers (albeit with the input of the mathematical formulas by humans)

You are right, they are beautiful. More than that, they are provebly infinitely complex (not just the piddling complexity of this universe of ours) and they arise from the formula "X = X^2 + c where X[0] = 0+0i, c = x+yi". That's it, the entire thing, the "mathematical formulas input by humans". (Mandelbrot set)

Rhinoqulous wrote

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Then how do you explain how people who experience some traumatic brain damage, can recover completely but with completely different personalities?
Not a jab, but a serious question.

Rhinoqulous wrote

Short Answer: I'm fine with the possibility of replacing the brain with an "artificial construct", as I see personal identity as an emergant from our brains "software" rather than it's "hardware".

Then how do you explain how people who experience some traumatic brain damage, can recover completely but with completely different personalities?
Not a jab, but a serious question.

[Rhinoqulous]

Bighead wrote

Then how do you explain how people who experience some traumatic brain damage, can recover completely but with completely different personalities?
Not a jab, but a serious question.

Ow. Hurts to type. Yeah, I'm calling into work with a dead grandma today.

I should have written "drunk answer" instead of "short answer".

I've read studies of people recovering from brain trauma not only displaying different personalities, but when the hemispheres of the brain are separated, under laboratory conditions each hemisphere displays a separate consciousness. I'll have to go dig out my cognitive psych book to find the study, but I'll do that later. I'm going to lie down for a while first.

[Rhinoqulous]

Bighead wrote

Then how do you explain how people who experience some traumatic brain damage, can recover completely but with completely different personalities?
Not a jab, but a serious question.

Ow. Hurts to type. Yeah, I'm calling into work with a dead grandma today.

I should have written "drunk answer" instead of "short answer".

I've read studies of people recovering from brain trauma not only displaying different personalities, but when the hemispheres of the brain are separated, under laboratory conditions each hemisphere displays a separate consciousness. I'll have to go dig out my cognitive psych book to find the study, but I'll do that later. I'm going to lie down for a while first.

Sorry I came to the thread late, but a former colleague, David Cope, has a computer program ("Experments in Musical Intelligence") that can churn out unlimited compositions in any composer's style.

Go to http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/experiments.htm

Sorry I came to the thread late, but a former colleague, David Cope, has a computer program ("Experments in Musical Intelligence") that can churn out unlimited compositions in any composer's style.

Go to http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/experiments.htm

[a different tim]

But can you get the generative algorithms off him? Now that I would be interested in.....

Early generative music, by Mozart:

Here for the original (you can order it) and here for a MIDI version.