Galactically Stoopid Theist Quotes

[Philboid Studge]

Lily wrote

The Gospels.

Do they claim to be firsthand eyewitness accounts, or are they the record of people who said they talked to people who claimed they heard about people who said they saw these things?

[Professor Chaos]

Philboid Studge wrote

Do they claim to be firsthand eyewitness accounts, or are they the record of people who said they talked to people who claimed they heard about people who said they saw these things?

...perhaps in a "vision."

Choobus wrote

because you'll believe anything?

It must be admitted that the man is quick-witted.

[Choobus]

Lily wrote

Excuse me. Islam is, at best, a heresy of Christianity. It came later in the scheme of things, remember?

Some might say that Christianity is a heresy of judaism....

[Philboid Studge]

What's so great about Love thy Neighbor, anyway?

Seems downright balmy to me. (And I've no doubt that most Christians agree, certainly in practise.)

[Philboid Studge]

If one should "love thy neighbor as thyself" does that mean that everybody on Prof's block gets handjobs?

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

I have made no such claim. I am expending more energy than I have to spare right now to try and refute that notion.

Did so. And I only wish I had your apparent inexhaustible supply of energy when it comes to refuting things here. You'll get around to it when you're ready.

Lily wrote

Excuse me. Islam is, at best, a heresy of Christianity. It came later in the scheme of things, remember? So that doesn't answer the question: What religions or tribes or clans pre-Christianity extended love of neighbor beyond its own borders?

And Christianity is a "heresy" of Judaism. Love your neighbor as you love yourself is just another twist on do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and the concept certainly existed before the invention of Jesus Christ. Was it widely practiced? Hell no. And I ain't claiming that it was, or even claiming it's a raging fad today. Anyway, Christians are only encouraged to the practice with caveats:

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself, 'cause (caveat one) that might win him over to your cause and he might become a grateful ally, or (caveat two) if he remains an unloveable, heathen asshole, God'll take care of his ass and you can pretend to be sad when it happens.

Mind you, I ain't knockin' 'em for the effort. Makes sense when you're trying to win friends and influence enemies. But when that doesn't work, well, Christians have not been above resorting to the rack, wars and other interesting methods of persuasion. Not that they're the only ones who have found these useful means to get their way. Jesus Christ himself claimed to control the destiny of one's alleged afterlife which, ultimately, was his leverage for influence.

Lily wrote

Oh? I am waiting to hear your argument for that position.

Both talking snakes and slaughtered, reanimated god-men are as rare as hen's teeth, far as I can see.

[Sternwallow]

Lily wrote

How hard is it for you to get that if I were going to make a religion up, it would be entirely made up of elements from my everyday life? How hard is it to understand that I would not place certain behaviors off-limits (or, even, hedge them round with all sorts or restrictions) that most of want to indulge in? Why would I demand that we "love our enemies and pray for them". That is about as counter-intuitve as it gets.

One would expect that a transcendent, creator God would come up with things we haven't seen before, if he were going to bother to deal with us at all. The weird thing is, those things make sense, once we think about them.

"Love your enemies and pray for them" is exactly the sentiment I would expect from someone who was planning to become my enemy. Jesus did not disappoint in this respect.

You just repudiated all miracles in Christianity by saying, incorrectly, that, when making up a religion, you would not include anything awe inspiring, or unusual. All of the religions that are not Christianity are necessarily made-up and they all include miracles, right?

Concerning prohibitions on things a Lily might want to do, they hijack inherent moral principles to substantiate the religion (no killing or stealing or lying) and they enhance the control over individual lives which is the hallmark of religion. Obvious examples of self-serving made-up constructs of religion include the fifth commandment of the second group of ten, roughly "thou shalt rest on the Sabbath and keep it holy", a commandment with no justification at all beyond forcing people to bend their lives to the religion as an act of mass obedience.

lily wrote

By the way, loving everyone is unique to Christianity. You will be hard pressed to find any group that extended the definition of neighbor, as in "love of neighbor" beyond its own clan or tribe.

Gosh... I don't know... Buddism?

Look idiot... the Gospels are fiction. You're a deluded tool.

Deal with it.

Choobus wrote

Some might say that Christianity is a heresy of judaism....

Jesus was not even a Christian. Until the day he "died," he believed himself to be a Jew.

It was others, afterwards, who created Christianity.

[anthonyjfuchs]

nkb wrote

It never fails, your ad populum argument always manages to make it in there.

Not to mention the fact that the disappearance of several ancient savior-cults corresponds to, and greatly explains, the expansion of the Jesus-cult. Osirians, Mithrains, Dionysians, et al were largely assimilated into the burgeoning cult, which sold its own superstitions with such innovative pitches as "you're worship of a god-man who was born of a virgin and died to redeem the ollective transgressions of humanity is spot-on; you're just calling him by the wrong name. Mithras's proper name is Jesus."

Stargazer wrote

It was others, afterwards, who created Christianity.

Not entirely. Christianities predate the character of Jesus, as several cults worshipped their own christs by other names. Call him Mithras; call him Horus; call him Dionysus. They were all christs, and thus all at the epicenters of Christianities.

Philboid Studge wrote

What's so great about Love thy Neighbor, anyway?
Seems downright balmy to me. (And I've no doubt that most Christians agree, certainly in practise.)

Oh? I don't think most of us do at all. If you understand that the word for love used here "agape" is not an emotion but an act of the will, it makes more sense. It would be better understood as "active benevolence". This is not some gauzy "you're ok, I'm ok" kind of attitude. It is a "do something positive" commandment. You know, the sort of thing that leads to soup kitchens, etc.

Choobus wrote

Some might say that Christianity is a heresy of judaism....

Been there. Said that.

Irreligious wrote

...Love your neighbor as you love yourself is just another twist on do unto others as you would have them do unto you ...

Yes.

and the concept certainly existed before the invention of Jesus Christ.

No. Not exactly. Let's look at a couple from others:

Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Humanism: "Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you" British Humanist Society.

(see others here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm)

What do the non-Christian quotes have in common? You will notice that in each case we are enjoined not to do harm.

But Jesus goes them all one better-- do good. Love your neighbor, as yourself. This is moral progress writ large.

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself, 'cause (caveat one) that might win him over to your cause and he might become a grateful ally...

Nope. Think about it. How do you love yourself? Do you, when you look in the mirror, say to yourself "Why, hello, there handsome! What a fine fellow you are. Too bad about that stupid old lady you cut off in traffic yesterday, but really, what right does she have to hold me back a couple of seconds? Oh, and too bad I didn't have time to listen to Bob's problems, I know he needed to talk, but hey! I have enough problems of my own". ..

I think not. I think you likely have a conscience and that you know that you have done wrong. Moreover, I think that leads, normally to making amends, where that is possible. Looked at in this light, loving one's neighbor as oneself takes on a different meaning with different applications.

...or (caveat two) if he remains an unloveable, heathen asshole, God'll take care of his ass and you can pretend to be sad when it happens.

It would be hard to be further away from love of neighbor than this. Do you wish bad things for yourself? Do you think you are unloveable? An asshole? Really? Those are not things that any Christian can possibly think who has progressed past Humanity, level 1 on his way to Christianity 101.

Mind you, I ain't knockin' 'em for the effort. Makes sense when you're trying to win friends and influence enemies. But when that doesn't work, well, Christians have not been above resorting to the rack, wars and other interesting methods of persuasion.

Oh? And why was that? Could it have had something to do with the times? With the culture of that time? (Why anyone thought it ok is a slightly different question with interesting answers). Was that commanded by Jesus?

Not that they're the only ones who have found these useful means to get their way. Jesus Christ himself claimed to control the destiny of one's alleged afterlife which, ultimately, was his leverage for influence.

Oh please. Some influence. It couldn't save him from a rather painful death. Of course, he freely accepted that death for our sake, but he did pray that he might be spared it, if it were his Father's will. Until he appeared in their midst, the disciples grieved, feared for their lives, and assumed that the story was finished. Some influence!

Both talking snakes and slaughtered, reanimated god-men are as rare as hen's teeth, far as I can see.

Oh? How rare are hen's teeth, really?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0223083601.htm

And, since a picture is worth a thousand words:



And for a non x-ray view:

[anthonyjfuchs]

Meanwhile, back on topic:

Mitt Romney wrote

Based on the numbers of American Muslims [as a percentage] in our population, I cannot see that a cabinet position would be justified.

Mitt "my religion constitutes less than 2% of the American population" Romney.

These are all good things, and I'm not denying that the rise of christianity played an important role in human social evolution. But what does believing that christ is the son of god have to do with loving your neighbour?

Mitt "my religion constitutes less than 2% of the American population" Romney.

scary stuff