Why Should I Believe in God?

"Well, if you believe that the New Testament is historical, and you believe that Jesus was the son of God, then you would believe in God."

Psy, don't you think it's a bit circular (if not disingenuous) to say that the New Testament is evidence for god's existence as long as one already believes that Jesus was the son of this god?

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

This is factually wrong. The canon of scripture was not decided at Nicea. It was decided at a synod in Rome in 382. The African church followed in a synod at Hippo in 393, as did Carthage in 397. Nor were the books "edited". They were the books that had been associated with the apostles, were used liturgically (i.e. read alound at worship), were well known and accepted by all. Many books that were hugely popular didn't make it in because they were not considered to be of apostolic origin though they were well regarded.

Stargazer did not say that the Biblical canon was decided at Nicea. She said the books were compiled by the council at that meeting and some books were subsequently edited-- meaning removed from-- the entire collection of scrolls called the Apocrypha which, ultimately, resulted in the collection of 27 books now recognized as the New Testatment.

Whatever the process, it's still the so-called gospels as decided by committee and, even more importantly, according to folks who weren't even there when Jesus was allegedly inhabiting this earthly plain.

Irreligious wrote

Stargazer did not say that the Biblical canon was decided at Nicea. She said the books were compiled by the council at that meeting and some books were subsequently edited-- meaning removed from-- the entire collection of scrolls called the Apocrypha which, ultimately, resulted in the collection of 27 books now recognized as the New Testatment.

Whatever the process, it's still the so-called gospels as decided by committee and, even more importantly, according to folks who weren't even there when Jesus was allegedly inhabiting this earthly plain.

In addition, I just found this:

When the Bible was put together depends on what sect you’re referring to (what a mess)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible

So even now there isn’t one Bible. There are still many versions composed of various books in various combinations. Which is the “real” Bible? Can it even be taken seriously at this point?

Excuse me. I have to go take Excederin.

Stargazer wrote

In addition, I just found this:

When the Bible was put together depends on what sect you’re referring to (what a mess)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible

So even now there isn’t one Bible. There are still many versions composed of various books in various combinations. Which is the “real” Bible? Can it even be taken seriously at this point?

Excuse me. I have to go take Excederin.

Unfortunately, the buy-bull is taken deadly seriously by many people.

Lily wrote

This is factually wrong. The canon of scripture was not decided at Nicea. It was decided at a synod in Rome in 382. The African church followed in a synod at Hippo in 393, as did Carthage in 397. Nor were the books "edited". They were the books that had been associated with the apostles, were used liturgically (i.e. read alound at worship), were well known and accepted by all. Many books that were hugely popular didn't make it in because they were not considered to be of apostolic origin though they were well regarded.



This is as good as a novel or a work of real fantasy! What religions include this "resurrection" ceremony? What kings went through such a ritual to prove their legitimate descent from a god? From which nations? From which gods? I would like some facts here. Some citations to real scholarly sources to back this up. (Hint: you are not going to have an easy time finding them.)

Which religions have festivals on Dec. 25? The earliest known celebrations of Christ's birth (ca 200 a.d.) took place in May and April. After these, Jan 6 was a popular choice. How Dec 25th was decided on is a long, interesting tale and has little to do with the solstice except insofar as it was used to calculate dates-- and that is how Jan 6, was arrived at, anyway.

I think a little more study is required here.

Most of this is pretty much known in academic circles. It is religious circles who claim no knowlege of this. Here are some referecnes online, which cite academic sources if you really want to pursue it, but I'm guessing you would rather ridicule them. Either way, it's there.

Midwinter resurrection celebrations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Solstice_Celebrations

Section entitled, Explanations for Paralleled Traditions

http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

Section - December celebrations in many faiths and locations - ancient and modern

Subsection - CHRISTIANITY:

http://www.ruyasonic.com/winter_solstice_festival.htm

Section - The re-birth of the Sun

Sorry for the mismatched typefaces, I cut and pasted this together.

I especially appreciate the Wiki article, and its citations. The other I include for the interesting info.

I love to study mythology. Study does not imply belief.

Actually, there is very little here that is new or scholarly. The wiki article gets Christmas wrong so I can't really trust it to get the others right, so I didn't bother to look at them-- very little in the bibliography is a scholarly source, although those sources may have consulted scholarly sources.

However, just to comfort you, I will tell you that I know, as does everyone else in creation who studies religion and/or mythology, that the parallels are there and that they are real. However, understanding what that means is another matter.

[Irreligious]

I still don't understand why she's wasting her time with unwashed heathens who don't even have sense enough to accept as fact the existence of a human god who died and reanimated three days later. That, after all, is the most logical of claims one can make, yet the doofuses here remain skeptical. Clearly, they refuse to see reason. Why, then, does she continually cast her pearls before swine when there are sincere Christians out there starving for this unique wisdom of hers?

Edited
Isn't this precisely what Jesus commanded his followers not to do?
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

Irreligious wrote

I still don't understand why she's wasting her time with unwashed heathens who don't even have sense enough to accept as fact the existence of a human god who died and reanimated three days later. That, after all, is the most logical of claims one can make, yet the doofuses here remain skeptical. Clearly, they refuse to see reason. Why, then, does she continually cast her pearls before swine when there are sincere Christians out there starving for this unique wisdom of hers?

It is the hope that she will finally "get through" to one or several of us that keeps Lily, Lurker and their kind coming back. They have a mission which they feel their god has given them, and no matter how many times we ignorant unbelievers reject their ideas, they feel inspired to keep trying, as it will no doubt enhance their guarantee of a place in Heaven. Sigh.

Stargazer wrote

It is the hope that she will finally "get through" to one or several of us that keeps Lily, Lurker and their kind coming back. They have a mission which they feel their god has given them, and no matter how many times we ignorant unbelievers reject their ideas, they feel inspired to keep trying, as it will no doubt enhance their guarantee of a place in Heaven. Sigh.

If we are guaranteed a place in heaven, what enhancement is required or, even, possible?

[Choobus]

Lily wrote

If we are guaranteed a place in heaven, what enhancement is required or, even, useful?

because it's not a guarantee, and you are all shitting yourselves in case you fuck up and don't have enough time to repent.

Lily wrote

If we are guaranteed a place in heaven, what enhancement is required or, even, possible?

I can't answer that, as I don't believe in Heaven.

Choobus wrote

because it's not a guarantee, and you are all shitting yourselves in case you fuck up and don't have enough time to repent.

OK. Where is it written that arguing with a bunch of atheists on an online forum has any value in God's eyes?

[Choobus]

Lily wrote

OK. Where is it written that arguing with a bunch of atheists on an online forum has any value in God's eyes?

Y'all love conversions more than ladyboys.

[Irreligious]

Lily wrote

OK. Where is it written that arguing with a bunch of atheists on an online forum has any value in God's eyes?

Then why do it?

Lily wrote

OK. Where is it written that arguing with a bunch of atheists on an online forum has any value in God's eyes?

That was what we were wondering. However, don't leave in a huff. We like you, but disagree with your ideas.