The uncreated Creator, intelligent Designer, transcendent Causal Agent

[Kate]

[Professor Chaos]

You were warned.

[Mog]

Foreversaved wrote

All the citations are given in the 4 Step Proof for God.

1. Trillions of things with causes, nothing in nature to be shown without a cause in nature. You don't have a enough bandwidth to list them all.

What is the cause of radioactive decay? What causes an atom to suddenly lose energy?

2. Jails would not be needed if sin did not exist.

Crime is not the same as "sin". if you stopped calling stealing a sin, would that suddenly stop the need to arrest people for stealing?

3. Human or child sacrifices are no longer prevalent; women can vote this past century; crime rate down per capita (verify it for yourself these facts are true).
4. Reason for this is given because of 2 & 3.

Where are you going with this? The leaders of the woman's suffrage movement were not particularly religious (Susan B Anthony was a Unitarian, for example and her partner Elizabeth Stanton was an outright Atheist), so it appears that social progress does not necessarily have a religious cause.

5. Contact Gary R. Habermas who has quoted the bulk of skeptical scholars the past half century who agree on these 12 facts. Therefore, if you can't find an alternative explanation (that can't be explained away), know it is true, they saw Jesus resurrected.
6. That evidence is Gal. 1 & 2, 1 Cor. 15; the fact that Paul set up the churches in the many epistles of the NT; the many individuals and corroborating evidences of human interactions in setting up those churches; and group hallucinations are impossible.

I guess you can't count on geocities to keep a link alive. Anyway, Paul was relying heavily on the anecdotal evidence of Jesus's followers and Habermas makes too many presuppositions in gathering his "facts".

The fact is that you can make a pretty good argument that Christ never even existed, let alone never resurrected himself. See http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...th_history.htm for example.

7. Conclusion: derived from the evidence of 5 and 6.

Nope, sorry, doesn't follow.

[Smellyoldgit]

Some Wanker almost wrote

The uncreated creator, unintelligent poster, transcendent Bullshit Agent

My my my, a simple bit of interweb research shows just how big the stoopid is in this one.
Apologies to all our readers who come across forevershite's nonsense.

He/she/it didn't have much luck with Mr Randi either!

Ballsack

Foreversaved wrote

1. Trillions of things with causes, nothing in nature to be shown without a cause in nature.

etc..

All of which ONLY MAKE SENSE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF TIME. Time is a dimension of the universe.

[Sternwallow]

Isilmë wrote

All of which ONLY MAKE SENSE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF TIME. Time is a dimension of the universe.

You are right, but it is also a fallacy to inventory events and then assume since they all had causes that all events must have causes. Further, we can observe events which do not have causes so the poster's point: "Trillions of things with causes, nothing in nature to be shown without a cause in nature.", fails on several levels.

[ghoulslime]

Foreversaved wrote

All the citations are given in the 4 Step Proof for God.

1. Trillions of things with causes, nothing in nature to be shown without a cause in nature. You don't have a enough bandwidth to list them all.
2. Jails would not be needed if sin did not exist.
3. Human or child sacrifices are no longer prevalent; women can vote this past century; crime rate down per capita (verify it for yourself these facts are true).
4. Reason for this is given because of 2 & 3.
5. Contact Gary R. Habermas who has quoted the bulk of skeptical scholars the past half century who agree on these 12 facts. Therefore, if you can't find an alternative explanation (that can't be explained away), know it is true, they saw Jesus resurrected.
6. That evidence is Gal. 1 & 2, 1 Cor. 15; the fact that Paul set up the churches in the many epistles of the NT; the many individuals and corroborating evidences of human interactions in setting up those churches; and group hallucinations are impossible.
7. Conclusion: derived from the evidence of 5 and 6.

Foreverstupid, you are a sweaty donkey scrotum.

[Choobus]

ghoulslime wrote

Foreverstupid, you are a sweaty donkey scrotum.

Sir, you do many a Donkey a grave disservice.

I think this thread adequately proves why an atheist is going to Hell.

4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible (4SPFG)
1. Exponential progression of conscience disallows an eternity of the past of cause and effects in the natural realm since the human race would not still be sinning to the extent it still does. Therefore, the Uncreated (always existing) created who is God of the Bible ONLY since none can compare to Christ (by proof of resurrection using the 4SMFA).
2. The preponderance of evidence (trillions+) for cause and effects tell us nothing in the universe is without a cause, otherwise you would have to be God to know if God exists, and obviously, you are not God. It is not necessary to know everything to know if God exists due to overwhelming evidence. Therefore, the Uncreated must exist Who created, the only known available possibility Who is God of the Bible since none can compare to Christ. "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" (Arthur Conan Doyle; Spock on Star Trek said something similar).
3. Don't argue against a quality of some god that is not the nature of God of the Bible, otherwise you are arguing not against God of the Bible but something else. (It is necessary to point this out because the problem of misreading the Bible happens so often. Since encountered so profusely, it is necessary to say, to remain topic and stop deflection as much as possible.)
4. Exponential progression of conscience disallows the eternity of the past of cause and effects in the supernatural if it exists (the supernatural was proven to exist in Step 1 and 2) since people would not still be sinning as much as they do now. Therefore, the uncreated Creator created who is God of the Bible because none can compare to Christ (by comparison).

4 Step Minimal Facts Approach, Proving the Resurrection of Jesus and that He is God (4SMFA)
1. 95 to 99.9% of skeptical scholars who do their thesis work, are accredited and have peer review journal work done on the resurrection in the past half century (we know this because we counted them-see Gary R. Habermas) agree Paul really wrote and really believed what he wrote in 1 Cor. 15 and Gal. 1 & 2.
2. In these 3 chapters, Paul said he met with Peter, James (brother of Jesus) and John on several occasions in which the first meeting was with Peter and James within 5 years of Jesus' death on the cross, and they all agreed to the reason for being the eyewitnesses, in various group settings, to the bodily resurrection of Jesus.
3. People do not go to their deaths as martyrs if they don't believe in what they are doing. (Church fathers prove the eyewitnesses were put to death for claiming they saw Jesus resurrected, for worshiping Him as God and the only way to be saved was through Jesus.) The apostles really believed they saw, talked with, touched, walked with and ate with the resurrected Jesus, given in Scripture, which convinced them He is God and so became bold proclaimers when before they were doubters. Substantial evidence in Scripture testifies to this fact. The Bible is the proof and is allowed to prove something.
4. If no naturalistic theory can account for witnessing the bodily resurrection of Jesus, then it must be true they saw Jesus resurrected, for no other possibility exists in nature or human psychology that fits the data which shows He created us, He is uncreated and salvation is through Him. Since this is not something so complicated the world can't understand it like some aspects of quantum mechanics, a naturalistic explanation should be relatively easy to devise, yet none exist even after all this time to meet the data that skeptical scholars are virtually unanimous on. There is a time to reserve judgment and a time to give into overwhelming evidence. Therefore, we are without excuse.

Why be Satan's sheep?

[Smellyoldgit]

[calpurnpiso]

Foreversaved wrote

I think this thread adequately proves why an atheist is going to Hell.

Hey psychotic retard answer this question,

Do we CREATE god & other delusions with our BRAINS or do we pick them up from GOD itself? What is it?

Would you still be able to BELIEVE in god after I tinker with your temporal lobes? ( do you know what they are ?)

BTW. atheism means LACK OF BELIEF. FYI we evolved mutated primates (humans) are born LACKING BELIEF iow atheist.

Please see a neurologist then come back & enter in discussion with us mentally healthy aka atheist folks. We love Christ-psychotics or Islam psychotics we just HATE the delusions inducing neurological disorder that afflicts them making them so stupid & ignorant.

[Smellyoldgit]

Fuck me - I keep hearing a really irritating recorded message.

[Choobus]

Foreversaved wrote

I think this thread adequately proves why an atheist is going to Hell.

Since there is no proof that hell exists this thread proves no such thng. IT does, however, prove that you are a fucking moron, but you already knew that and we don't care, so all in all it's rather pointless, as indeed are you goat fister.