So why should I be an atheist?

[JerryJohn]

Smellyoldgit wrote

Seven dollars!? - the fucking skanky hag is ripping you off man! - get a refund!

LOL..........You and ghoul are probably fuckin' animals and corpses or men.
Sick freaks. Right in your "price range" Free.
JJ

[ghoulslime]

JerryJohn wrote

LOL..........You and ghoul are probably fuckin' animals and corpses or men.
Sick freaks. Right in your "price range" Free.
JJ

That’s precisely what I was thinking the first time I tapped your wife’s rotten crotch. “Holy fuck! Am I fucking an animal, a corpse, or a man here?”

Not enough fur on her back to be any domesticated animal that I could identify! Moaning too loudly to be a corpse – zombie maybe! Her dick was way too small to be considered a real man. (Anyway, you aren’t Gay if you don’t fuck back.)

If hadn’t already committed to the seven dollar investment, I would have backed off and jacked off.

That woman is guilty of usury among other things!

[OnTheRazorsEdge]

Michael wrote

At the end of the day, though, the concept is still the same. Instead of complicating my idea, let's simplify yours and see what happens.

Let's say that only two people exist in the world, and only those two people have ever existed, so societal pressures about rape do not exist.

Now let's say the rapist is a complete sociopath, incapable of feeling empathy for the other. Now he is no longer burdened by feelings of guilt over the act.

And let's for funsies say that the woman is incapable of enjoying sex even if it was mutual.

LOL...I'm not sure that stipulating a sociopathic rapist and a woman incapable of enjoying sex is really "simplifying" my idea, but okay. Anyway, I think that discussion was getting a bit off-base.

I started off by saying in order to recognize that something is evil, you must have some concept of good. To which you replied:

Michael wrote

Rather, we exist in a 'neutral' state, and judge something's inherent good/evil by how it affects that neutral state.
If it affects us in a positive way, it's good. If it affects us in a negative way, it's bad.

However, we judge against our neutral state, not against any good.

But really, do I have to directly experience something in order to judge whether it's good or bad? No. I don't have to be raped to know that rape is wrong (bad). I don't have to have something stolen from me to know that theft is wrong (bad). I don't have to witness a baby being tortured to know that act is wrong (bad).

Michael wrote

We can never experience a single shred of good in our lives but still recognise something is bad because it negatively affects our state.

Yes, but we can also recognize that not having experienced the "something bad" would be good. Or to use a blackjack analogy, we can recognize that a push would be preferable to losing our bet to the house. So even though we remained at a "break-even" level, that is preferable to going into a negative state.

Michael wrote

What I didn't add last time, which we can discuss if you wish, is that nothing is universally good.

This is interesting. Coming from your atheistic/naturalistic viewpoint, I would have guessed that life itself would be a "universal good" for you.

[Michael]

Oh, you're back. Honestly, in all the excitement of new blood I didn't even notice until now. Anyway.

OnTheRazorsEdge wrote

But really, do I have to directly experience something in order to judge whether it's good or bad?

I would hope not, considering most humans have empathy.
I don't actually have to explain what empathy is to you, do I? Because the way you're arguing makes it sound like you don't know.

No. I don't have to be raped to know that rape is wrong (bad). I don't have to have something stolen from me to know that theft is wrong (bad). I don't have to witness a baby being tortured to know that act is wrong (bad).

No, but your argument was - if I remember correctly - that we can only know something is bad if we've also got some super ultimate good thing.
Then you go and say that you know all these things are wrong. Not because of any contrast to some innate "goodness". Simply you can recognise them as wrong. You appear to have forgotten to actually make your argument.

Because here's the rub - you recognise they are wrong thanks to empathy. You know that you would not like to have your personal privates invaded - that would be a bad thing, so you can recognise others would also feel the same.

That is, from your current neutral state, you can see the contrast with the bad thing. All without any sort of god sitting over your shoulder and saying 'hey, yeah, don't do that'.
Perhaps you are growing as a person. Perhaps you just fucked up, and will now double down on your bad arguments. Who knows?

Yes, but we can also recognize that not having experienced the "something bad" would be good. Or to use a blackjack analogy, we can recognize that a push would be preferable to losing our bet to the house. So even though we remained at a "break-even" level, that is preferable to going into a negative state.

I don't really remember all the details of our conversation and frankly I can't bother to go back and sit through all that again so I'm just going to skip forward.

This is interesting. Coming from your atheistic/naturalistic viewpoint, I would have guessed that life itself would be a "universal good" for you.

Yeah let's talk about that, something new when you return to this forum for another drive by in 6 months time.
So why would simply being naturalistic make life itself a "universal good"? I don't know why you would think that.

[Prycejosh]

you shouldnt be an athiest but christian because life is more fulfilling that way. its a good challenge with a great reward. you get benefits here on earth and after you die. someone always listening to your prayers. its free counselling aswell. give and you receive seek and you find. on what you want out of life. you should try church going and christian lifestyle.

[Smellyoldgit]

Do you do anal?

[Sinfidel]

Prycejosh wrote

you shouldnt be an athiest but christian because life is more fulfilling that way. its a good challenge with a great reward. you get benefits here on earth and after you die. someone always listening to your prayers. its free counselling aswell. give and you receive seek and you find. on what you want out of life. you should try church going and christian lifestyle.

[Davin]

When I was a Christian, I was living at home without a job, living off of handouts... even peeing and pooping in my own pants... then I found the light of reason, shed my chains of Christianity and now I have held a job in my career for a long time, pay my own rent, food... etc. and no longer have to live off of handouts. Also, I don't shit and piss in my own pants, now I can pay with my own hard earned money to shit and piss in someone else's pants. Surely my life is better without Christianity.

[Prycejosh]

your wrong atheists DO believe in god they just don't respect him and call him evil.

[Prycejosh]

being a non Christian or a Christian doesn't necessary change your life style in terms of what you get out of life. in some cases. it depends on if you prayed for it and the action to took to get it. you expected god to do everything for you and saw no results. The bible says that prayer alone is insufficient My sister was the same, and he doesn't work like that. but you don't have to follow god to get blessed he blesses the unkind and ungrateful. the devil held your life but let everything go because he's got you now. lol.

[Prycejosh]

atheism is actually the mental illness not Christianity because most atheists say theres no purpose in life. ok then OnTheRazorsEdge what do you think the purpose of life is?

[Sinfidel]

Prycejosh wrote

atheism is actually the mental illness not Christianity because most atheists say theres no purpose in life. ok then OnTheRazorsEdge what do you think the purpose of life is?

Do enlighten us on the purpose of eternal life!

[Sinfidel]

Prycejosh wrote

being a non Christian or a Christian doesn't necessary change your life style in terms of what you get out of life. in some cases. it depends on if you prayed for it and the action to took to get it. you expected god to do everything for you and saw no results. The bible says that prayer alone is insufficient My sister was the same, and he doesn't work like that. but you don't have to follow god to get blessed he blesses the unkind and ungrateful. the devil held your life but let everything go because he's got you now. lol.

Try wrapping your little tiny mind around this....

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


― Epicurus

[Michael]

Sinfidel wrote

Do enlighten us on the purpose of eternal life!

Eternal life would literally be the worst torment of all. Eventually you would experience everything, speak everything, think everything, and you'd still only be at the start of eternity. Then you would eperience everything, think everything, say everything again. And again. And again. Time would become meaningless. The passing of 100 trillion years would become nothing, as you sit there with nothing but stale thoughts, words, and experiences that you have thought, said, and experienced a hundred thousand, a hundred million times before. It would become literally an endless torture of ennui.

[Davin]

Prycejosh wrote

your wrong atheists DO believe in god they just don't respect him and call him evil.

I do not believe in any god or gods.

Prycejosh wrote

being a non Christian or a Christian doesn't necessary change your life style in terms of what you get out of life. in some cases. it depends on if you prayed for it and the action to took to get it. you expected god to do everything for you and saw no results. The bible says that prayer alone is insufficient My sister was the same, and he doesn't work like that. but you don't have to follow god to get blessed he blesses the unkind and ungrateful. the devil held your life but let everything go because he's got you now. lol.

So... you said my life would be better if I became a Christian, but my life got better when I became an atheist... so now you're saying that being a Christian doesn't make my life better? Nice.

Prycejosh wrote

atheism is actually the mental illness not Christianity because most atheists say theres no purpose in life. ok then OnTheRazorsEdge what do you think the purpose of life is?

The purpose of life is what I decide my purpose is, which works out better than what some incestual, nomadic, goat herding, bronze age idiots deciding what the purpose of my life is.