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Old 02-11-2008, 03:27 PM   #31
nkb
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When I said "small window", I meant time-wise. I don't know how long we've been studying homosexual behavior in animals, but I can't imagine it's been very long.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:26 PM   #32
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Does anyone know where evolution put my keys?
Look upstairs on the night stand, but be warned, there are many severe gaps in the hall floor.

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"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:38 PM   #33
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When I said "small window", I meant time-wise. I don't know how long we've been studying homosexual behavior in animals, but I can't imagine it's been very long.
Maybe not "studying" it, but folks have observed (and apparently shut out of their minds) all sorts of homosexual behavior in animals.

It is downright comical to see a cow try to hump another cow (this is not a Lily reference ... or maybe, who knows?).

People who claim that homosexuality is unnatural have inadequate experience with nature to have a valid opinion.

So many people think that anything they can't imagine must be immoral. I can't imagine why anyone could be sexually aroused by a pile of rusting scrap metal, but it is a good bet that there is someone out there who finds corroding metal a total turn-on.

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:54 PM   #34
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Maybe not "studying" it, but folks have observed (and apparently shut out of their minds) all sorts of homosexual behavior in animals.

It is downright comical to see a cow try to hump another cow (this is not a Lily reference ... or maybe, who knows?).

People who claim that homosexuality is unnatural have inadequate experience with nature to have a valid opinion.

So many people think that anything they can't imagine must be immoral. I can't imagine why anyone could be sexually aroused by a pile of rusting scrap metal, but it is a good bet that there is someone out there who finds corroding metal a total turn-on.
The pyromaniac in the crowd (ces't moi ) gets pretty excited at a thermite fire party...and that's just corroding metal.

cute link.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...43493488769585
orgasmic heat....mmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:56 PM   #35
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nkb wrote View Post
When I said "small window", I meant time-wise.
I thought you meant a glory hole (or, as francis calls it, work).

You can always turn tricks for a few extra bucks. If looks are an issue, there's the glory hole option, but don't expect more than ... tips.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:46 PM   #36
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Yet one can't "catch" gayness from mere proximity to gay people, teachers, for instance.

Yeah, not so much.

I was thinking of gestational influences of the neurohormonal type.

It's highly unlikely that even listening in utero to Barry Manilow records will turn a fetus to teh gay side.

However, I've heard rumors that Teh Gay Agenda presents a free toaster to any member who accomplishes the feat.

Last edited by Smellyoldgit; 02-12-2008 at 07:05 AM. Reason: superfluous word - sneakilly removed!!
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:31 PM   #37
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Here's what I don't understand: Why are some people who claim not to be homosexual so fascinated by "gayness?" I mean, stripped down to the essentials, it just ain't that interesting, folks. It's just sex and bonding and, really, not all that terribly different from the hetero kind. We all have skin, genitalia, nipples and orificies that enjoy stimulation. That is absolutely universal. It's how we're built.


I'm a lot more fascinated by the folks who are seemingly more interested in the sex lives of other consenting adults than their own. Why do they care enough to be repulsed by something that ain't got nothing to do with them? Do they freak out with the same vehemence at thought of two fat people having sex? Two octogenarians? A fat octogenarian and a hot, 20-something blond? Are they afraid that these "odd" pairings will also become the rage among impressionable minds when exposed to the idea that such "anomalies" exist? Do they even think about such things?

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Old 02-12-2008, 02:31 AM   #38
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I cannot answer your question correctly (or rather, "completely") Irre.

Never mind. I lost my train of thought
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:42 AM   #39
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1. Does that mean you consider it now?

2. Homosexuality is similar to any other type of sexual desire in that it is not a choice to be sexually aroused by it, it just is sexually arousing for some people.
I won't go into details, but yes, I have mildly considered it.

2. Exactly.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:09 AM   #40
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Do they freak out with the same vehemence at thought of two fat people having sex? Two octogenarians? A fat octogenarian and a hot, 20-something blond?
I didn't think about that until you mentioned it. Now I am quietly freaking out. Homosexuality doesn't bother me. This does, but only because I can imagine it. I guess it won't bother me so much when I'm a rich, obese octogenerian.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:47 AM   #41
nkb
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Maybe not "studying" it, but folks have observed (and apparently shut out of their minds) all sorts of homosexual behavior in animals.

It is downright comical to see a cow try to hump another cow (this is not a Lily reference ... or maybe, who knows?).

People who claim that homosexuality is unnatural have inadequate experience with nature to have a valid opinion.
That was my point to whoneedscience.

People have observed homosexuality among animals (including humans) for quite a while, but how long has it been seriously studied, to the point that we can make conclusions about whether or not it is advantageous in an evolutionary sense?

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:59 AM   #42
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Can a mod pleeeez fix my error in post #36? Take out the superfluous "gives" PUhLeeeeeeze? and thank you.

I hate not being able to edit after 10 minutes.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:01 AM   #43
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Here's what I don't understand: Why are some people who claim not to be homosexual so fascinated by "gayness?" ...
Two words, Irr.

Reaction. Formation.

Freud wasn't right about everything, but he gets props for the ego defense mechanisms.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:06 AM   #44
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Can a mod pleeeez fix my error in post #36? Take out the superfluous "gives" PUhLeeeeeeze? and thank you.
Cripes - being kept busy today!!

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:18 AM   #45
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That was my point to whoneedscience.

People have observed homosexuality among animals (including humans) for quite a while, but how long has it been seriously studied, to the point that we can make conclusions about whether or not it is advantageous in an evolutionary sense?

Why does EVERYTHING have to be selectively advantageous? In a complex biological system there is plenty of room for spandrels. As long as the trait is not DIS advantageous, why would it be selected against? Hell, stimulating the genitalia feels good. THAT's advantageous. (and fun) So what if the organism stimulates its genitals with an opposite sex organism, a same sex organism, a different species, or a tree?

Now if the tendency to stimulate genitalia could not be overridden by other drives, such as hunger, thirst, or stress (such as that arising from the fear of being eaten... and not in a good way...), that would be bad. So it would be selected against.

The thing that makes the pleasure of genital stimulation work for reproductive purposes is because mutual stimulation of complementary types of genitalia is selected for reproductively, and simply more likely because of the greater numbers of heterosexuals in the population. If homosexuals started to increase (and there's at least some evidence supporting that stressors can affect the prenatal hormonal milieu to the extent that changes in brain development lean in a more homosexual direction, and overpopulation is stressful), then the population would decrease and homosexuality would become not-advantageous. But if that was the driving selective pressure, the population would naturally decrease and gestational stress would not occur to increase the tendency toward homosexual brain development.

Slightly tautological perhaps, but no worse than the pseudo-evo-bio explanations that don't address neurobiology.
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