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Old 03-05-2006, 11:32 PM   #16
whoneedscience
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I don't know. I know a couple atheists who are just as stupid as theists in that they accept whatever they are told but never really think about it. They were raised without any mention of God, so they never questioned it either way. To them evolution is some silly science thing they had to learn in high school, but have long since forgotten about completely.

I used to think a lot of intellectual things were impossible to believe, but that was back when I was a Republican and struggling agnostic, and that whole part of my life just makes me feel bad about existence. Leave it to theists to prove that the human brain is capable of believing any amount of nonsense.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:43 PM   #17
There Is
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whoneedscience wrote
Leave it to theists to prove that the human brain is capable of believing any amount of nonsense.
Which is why belief is irrelevant. It's what you can prove, and physically show with reliable continuous same results, that matters.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:49 PM   #18
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There Is wrote
Which is why belief is irrelevant. It's what you can prove, and physically show with reliable continuous same results, that matters.
Oh, but empiricism is a trick of the devil! Surely you do not mean to tell me that my belief in God despite any evidence to the contrary isn't the single most important thing in my life? :rolleyes:
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:35 PM   #19
Gnosital
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If there's anything I've learned in my life, it's that human perception has the most amazing capacity for denial, rationalization, compartmentalization, and all sorts of inane mental gyrations to make any two mutually exclusive perspectives fit snugly into an alternative reality. No logic required.

So sadly, yes, it is possible. But that doesn't make it right.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:34 AM   #20
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Good point. I wonder what atheists thought prior ot Darwin about how humans came to be. I know that evolution does not technically deal with abiogenesis, but the two are very related. You would figure that if you had a 13th Century Atheist by the throat and asked him if humans started off as humans, how can you reconcile this into a belief that humans weren't created.
they thought the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it too, yet science proved these theories wrong so they changed their minds. abit like if science proved evolution wrong, most scientists would apodt the new theroies, but if science proved god was a fabricated lie (which it is by the way, just watch this space) then would you be willing to change your mind about oh holy one???????

"sits back in his chair and waits for the onslaught to begin"
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:08 AM   #21
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In all cases, before there were scientific explanations, with what did the atheists replace the prevalent "goddidit" mantra?

In nearly all of these situations, the unlucky atheists would need mass quantities of burn ointment and splinter removal kits long before they actually formulated an alternative to god. The few remaining atheists developed thair own natural explanations, many of which were wrong, of course, but many were probably right. It may well be that some secret atheist formulated the theory of evolution years before Darwin and prudently kept it to himself. There were a lot of hobbyists conducting experiments in their basements and those who survived the fashionable public experiment of the time, determining, yet again, the ignition temperature of human flesh, discovered many things.

"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
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Old 03-09-2006, 06:53 PM   #22
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baconeatingatheistjew wrote
I say no.
Sure. If they also don't "believe" in algebra.

Facts are facts; evidence is evidence. Evolution is merely a model that takes into account the physical evidence available and provides an accurate and functional description of a natural process. One doesn't "believe" in evolution; one simply acknowledges that it is an accurate model of reality, or one rejects that it is an accurate model of reality.

If one rejects that evolution is an accurate model of reality, then it is that person's responsibility to substantiate their claim of rejection. Since evolution is based on physical evidence, the person who rejects the model of evolution must present physical evidence that demonstrates the inaccuracy of evolution. If the person who rejects evolution presents enough physical evidence to back up their claim of rejection -- enough evidence to rival the physical evidence that supports the model of evolution -- then the model of evolution will be reconsidered.

Until then, those who reject evolution as an accurate model of reality -- those who don't "believe" in it -- can howl at the moon all they want, but their own ideas -- creationism/intelligent design/arbitrary-new-title -- will carry no scientific merit. Science is interested in forming functional models based on physical evidence, and the physical evidence that exists supports the model of evolution. Simple as that.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:34 PM   #23
calpurnpiso
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Quote:
baznap wrote
Quote:
baconeatingatheistjew wrote
Good point. I wonder what atheists thought prior ot Darwin about how humans came to be. I know that evolution does not technically deal with abiogenesis, but the two are very related. You would figure that if you had a 13th Century Atheist by the throat and asked him if humans started off as humans, how can you reconcile this into a belief that humans weren't created.
they thought the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it too, yet science proved these theories wrong so they changed their minds. abit like if science proved evolution wrong, most scientists would apodt the new theroies, but if science proved god was a fabricated lie (which it is by the way, just watch this space) then would you be willing to change your mind about oh holy one???????

"sits back in his chair and waits for the onslaught to begin"
After the Christ-psychotics took over the Roman empire causing its desintegration
( 5th Century) and after they slowly stablished intellectual stagnation replacing deductive rational thinking with their Invisible friend delusions, they introduced Christyland....nothing was real!..the truths became lies, rationality became lunacy, hipocresy became sincerity and all sort of ancient mythological entities became a matter of fact reality including the Homunculus, proposed by von Hohenheim( paracelsus) during 16th Century. Christians had NO IDEA about biology then and they still don't in this 21st Century...:lol:

Christians and other folks infected with delusional beliefs think and reason like schizophrenics or temporal lobe epileptics. Their morality is dictated by an invisible friend called Jesus.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:53 PM   #24
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Hehe, thats what probably ended the Roman Empire, economic decline was the result of social conservativism preventing openess to new cultures, etc.
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:18 PM   #25
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I think as close a you could get would be either

I don't beleive in god
I have no clue where animals and plants and stuff came from and don't care so I guess I don't realy beleive in evolution

or

I truely beleive the universe poped into existance 3 min ago and or is a personal delusion that I will eventualy get over.
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Old 03-13-2006, 05:37 PM   #26
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Sure, it's plenty possible that many Atheists just haven't thought a great deal about evolution. By I find it high unlikely that any Atheists (or Agnostics, or anybody with a whit of rational thought in their brain.) have carefully examined evolution and purposefully rejected it.

Somebody asked the question how Atheists viewed the start of life before evolutionary theory was around. They didn't basically, but they were pretty sure that it wasn't an invisible cloud man making people out of Mud (or the flavor of the day creation myth.) Today we don't have an exact answer (yet) as to how life started on earth, but I'm pretty confident it wasn't a magical god-man.

You have to remember even without evolution, there was still a geological record, and before that there was the telescope, and before that you could look up and see the shadow of the moon. It doesn't take much to tell that religion is full of shit.
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Old 03-13-2006, 05:52 PM   #27
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It seems like people here believe that until Darwin and Copernicus everyone thought the Earth was flat, it was the center of the universe and we were created by Gods (or at least if they didn't believe these things they remained silent). Heliocentric models were around in India from the 9th century BCE, with the Chinese, Greek and Indian ancient civilizations arriving at fairly accurate (considering the tools available) measurements of the size of the Earth, moon and Sun, and the distances between them. The early Greek and Indian Atomists (Democritus in particular) believed all there was to existence were atoms and void, and the current arrangement of the universe was the result of random collisions. Considering these ideas go back to almost the time of our earliest writings, these ideas aren't new; they've been with us all along.

Wait just a minute-You expect me to believe-That all this misbehaving-Grew from one enchanted tree? And helpless to fight it-We should all be satisfied-With this magical explanation-For why the living die-And why it's hard to be a decent human being - David Bazan
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:14 PM   #28
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Sternwallow wrote
It may well be that some secret atheist formulated the theory of evolution years before Darwin and prudently kept it to himself.
I heard about this a while ago but I couldn't find anything on it for some time.
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...BookEVOLI.html

The Ancient Greek philosopher Anaxiamander (611-547 B.C.) and the Roman philosopher Lucretius (99-55 B.C.) coined the concept that all living things were related and that they had changed over time. The classical science of their time was observational rather than experimental.

So an idea like evolution was not beyond the grasp of early civilizations.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:43 PM   #29
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I think by now we know that evolution is a fact. It would be hard to deny that if you’re an Atheist.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:02 PM   #30
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Unless your a sceptic DJ.

"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself."
Carl Sagan
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