US 21st in the world in science and math graduates

[Stargazer]

This has to do with something Victus and I were discussing some time back. I cannot seem to find that other thread.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ience-and-math

[Davin]

I think one reason, is because we keep calling it math instead of maths. They include computer science in that, so I'm part of the 1.5% helping the U.S. stats out. Seriously though, the politicians in the U.S. have been against education for a long time now.

Anyone who has been paying attention to it for the last few decades, has noticed that the U.S. has been so far from #1 on anything, but we still keep up the belief that we're #1 country in the world. It's like the high school quarter back that's now unemployed and sitting in a recliner with a huge gut, drinking piss beer and talking about how awesome he was 30 years ago.

[Eternal]

I like the quarter back analogy, I think that is pretty accurate. It is scary on what the future holds for the US, less innovation will potentially lead to less industry. Other countries closer to the top already have cheaper labour and more incentives for big corporate investment, now it appears they will have the bulk of the talent too.

[Stargazer]

Yep, I agree with Eternal - good analogy, Davin.

Math and science are incredibly important, and it's not just having people major in it in school, but having the general population actually grasp (and retain) the basic concepts.

[Eternal]

I don't usually buy into conspiracy theories etc, but there does seem to be an effort to dumb down the people on the whole. I recently saw 2 comparative test papers, one from the UK GCSE test, and one from the equivalent test 80 or so years previous. The difference in difficulty was quite large I thought.

Whether this is down to how the current education system is more results based, or whether it is just the volume of students that go through the system today, who knows? but unless someone goes onto further education, the standards do seem pretty low.

[ubs]

Clearly we have leadership that has little vested interest in public welfare, but I think there is cultural components holding us back in the US as well as a lack of resources.

1. The glorification of ignorance
2. The idea, much touted, that math ability is inherent - a concept that encourages rapid abandonment in the face of any adversity.

[Stargazer]

Attitudes like this don't help:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basic...he%20Bible.htm

This is another little gem from this post of Eternal's earlier today:

http://ravingatheists.com/forum/show...66&postcount=1

Thanks, Eternal. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time.

[Eternal]

Stargazer wrote

Thanks, Eternal. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time.

Don't thank me, thank the extremely talented theologian behind it.

[Stargazer]

Eternal wrote

Don't thank me, thank the extremely talented theologian behind it.

[West491]

Frequent victim of differential calculus here.

In all seriousness, the number of adults who suffer from adding and subtracting fractions in the States is extremely frightening. I once tutored my younger cousin (upon her request) in her fractions, and I asked her why her mom hadn't helped her with such a simple homework assignment. She said that her 40-yr. old mom didn't know how to do it.

People, this was stuff like '1/2 + 1/3=???'. Not complex stuff.

-btw she mastered adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing fractions in 2.5 hours with me. not to my credit, she's a bright kid.

[West491]

All high school students should be required to pass basic calculus before receiving a diploma. None of this pre-calculus (which is basically algebra) crap. If we push our students more they will do better, like natural selection.

[Stargazer]

West491 wrote

All high school students should be required to pass basic calculus before receiving a diploma. None of this pre-calculus (which is basically algebra) crap. If we push our students more they will do better, like natural selection.

Good idea. Bet it won't fly, though.

[Eternal]

West491 wrote

All high school students should be required to pass basic calculus before receiving a diploma. None of this pre-calculus (which is basically algebra) crap. If we push our students more they will do better, like natural selection.

Couldn't agree more.

I was reading an article the other day where it was detailing the problem schools are currently having with new starters who aren't toilet trained. Apparently 23% in some area's of 5 year olds starting school are having problems, the upshot was that either the parents don't give a shit, or they think it is somehow the schools responsibility.

Fucking idiots.

I think on the whole we expect far too little from the kids of today, and we praise too much, positive re-enforcement is great, when they have done something positive to re-enforce.

[Michael]

Look on the bright side, you're still slightly better than Mexico.

[Davin]

Michael wrote

Look on the bright side, you're still slightly better than Mexico.

I think that is plan behind the conspiracy, in order to stop illegal immigration, we just have to make our country worse than Mexico.