Great Apes May Be Granted Human Rights in Spain

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1031#comment

[Gnosital]

Looks like the socialists are buying votes with legislation!

Hey, great apes deserve at least as many human rights as fetuses have here in the US!

[Choobus]

scathach wrote

Looks like the socialists are buying votes with legislation!

Hey, great apes deserve at least as many human rights as fetuses have here in the US!

I would say more as they can smash your face in if you annoy them.

Good. Apes should be granted basic "human" rights.

Rocketman wrote

Good. Apes should be granted basic "human" rights.

Uhhhh... why? First objection: They aren't human. Call me a "speciesist" if you want but one would think that human rights are limited by their nature to humans.

Second objection: Rights imply responsibilities. Are we going to jail apes for crimes they commit? If so, are they competent to stand trial? How many chances does the ape get to stop smashing people and submit to arrest before the police can put it down? Are apes subject to conscription?

Third objection: Spain has a socialist government, so they probably include food, education, health care, a "living wage," etc. all to be human rights. If an ape wants a job, can an employer discriminate against it in favor of a human? Will there be ape-only schools? It seems to me that this would go against the spirit of the measure. Perhaps bussing is the solution; ape kids can go to school in the city and human kids can go to school in the jungle or whatever. Oh! How about mixed marriages?

[a different tim]

I believe this has already happened to some extent in New Zealand.

I don't think it's that bad an idea. Under any sane taxonomy chimps are genus homo.

We grant limited rights - without responsibilities - to children and the like (indeed here in the UK animals do have some "rights" - it isn't legal to just torture animals indiscriminately, for example) so there is a precedent. I don't think anyone's talking about the right to vote or anything, though it might be amusing to do so.....

I suspect the rights in question are "negative rights" like the "right" not to be killed for fun, etc, rather than "positive" rights which would come with responsibilities.

One thing. Apes can never run in political elections in the USA because to the best of my knowledge, all non human apes are Atheists.

Only selected state constitutions ban non-theists from office, Baconeater. The federal charter explicitly bans religious tests.

[a different tim]

baconeatingatheistjew wrote

One thing. Apes can never run in political elections in the USA because to the best of my knowledge, all non human apes are Atheists.

In which case you need to explain Dubya.....

Oz wrote

Uhhhh... why? First objection: They aren't human. Call me a "speciesist" if you want but one would think that human rights are limited by their nature to humans.

Second objection: Rights imply responsibilities. Are we going to jail apes for crimes they commit? If so, are they competent to stand trial? How many chances does the ape get to stop smashing people and submit to arrest before the police can put it down? Are apes subject to conscription?

Third objection: Spain has a socialist government, so they probably include food, education, health care, a "living wage," etc. all to be human rights. If an ape wants a job, can an employer discriminate against it in favor of a human? Will there be ape-only schools? It seems to me that this would go against the spirit of the measure. Perhaps bussing is the solution; ape kids can go to school in the city and human kids can go to school in the jungle or whatever. Oh! How about mixed marriages?

Wow and I ususally don't do this but Holy fuck! Man! Could you come up with some crappier objections?

Human was in quotes because I had already recognized that they are not human but are advanced enough-sophisticated enough to feel pain, be afraid of death and experience cruelty in a manner so like our own that they can fall under an ambit of protection the same as we would offer another human being. Moreover, the differentiation between human and chimp is so negligible in terms of genetics that we are most properly considered cousins.

Rights do not imply respopnsibilities. Does an infant then possess no rights? How about an individual in a coma? What about a person with severe mental impairment? This point is untterly invalid.

Well nice of you to walk into the realm of the ridiculous. Nowhere does it state that human rights give any of the things you have ascribed. What they do give one is protection undetr the law from unfair incarceratin, personal harm or exploitation. They codify the fact that you cannot own another " human" as this is slavery. What you are talking about is the fucked up , bullshit fucking crap that passess as human rights for people who haver had to fight one fucking day to actually have a real one.

You know white folks.

[skeptic griggsy]

Rocket Man, yes , we are ape /persons .The other apes should have the negative rights. Rights do not imply responsibility,because one can right to editors and give false facts or one can vote without examining the issues or whatever.