Abortion

[Sinfidel]

jimmyjet wrote

biology 101 - each of our lives starts with the joining of a sperm and an egg.

jimmyjet wrote

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.
the only exact point is at conception.

Contradict yourself much, dumbcluck?

[Sinfidel]

jimmyjet wrote

that is so not the point. this is how each and every one of our lives start. we dont look the same as an 18-year-old adult. but just go to some hospice for a day, and take a look at a shriveled up 50 pound person waiting to die, and they dont look very much like an 18-year-old adult either.

Why is itt that you theologues only focus on the "unborn child" aspect of the spectrum? What about the "undead corpses" at the other end of life? It's just horrible that these zombies with their decrepit old corpses cling to life when they should be dead and enjoying the afterlife.

jimmyjet wrote

it is even more ridiculous to think that one can pinpoint an exact microsecond when the non-human-being becomes a human being.

Exactly, and equally ridiculous to claim one can pinpoimt the exact moment when an undead corpse can die!

[Sinfidel]

jimmyjet wrote

we celebrate our birthday based on the day of our birth.

and it is just that - a celebration.

it states nothing about our life inside the womb.

Why don't you tell us about yours - I'm sure you remember it well, since you were a fully formed person from conception.

[Sinfidel]

jimmyjet wrote

why not just cut off the guy's penis, and sew up the vagina for people who can not be responsible for their sexual actions ?

What is it with you sicko theologue psychopaths, so obsessed with other peoples sex lives, and so eager to engage in genital mutilation?

Oh wait, we know - the religion con is all about inculcating sexual guilt to keep the masses docile. But keep parotting your dogma, it's entertaining to see just how retarded you lot are.

[Clifton]

What is with these sick fucks? Sewing up vaginas, cutting off dicks; nobody cares what mentally ill people think. Unless you are thirsty, then we might give you some water. This, only after we sew your mouth shut because it resembles a cunt.

[ghoulslime]

Here’s a wild idea: How about letting women make their own decisions about reproduction? Each woman could decide whether or not she would like another human to form inside of her body, and creepy religious assholes could stop trying to control the sexuality and reproduction of other humans.

And CreepyJimmyJerry could continue to fuck farm animals, and bugger little children for Jesus, and such!

[ILOVEJESUS]

How about I decide who plants their willies in what holes? I have first dibs across the spectrum of course!

[ghoulslime]

I wonder what has happened to CreepyJimmyJerry. Do you suppose he got tired of talking to himself, or did he finally run out of illogical, imbecilic, and creepy things to say?

Isn’t it Jesus Groundhog Day pretty soon? Perhaps CreepyJimmyJerry is off hunting Jesus anal eggs or something? CreepyJimmyJerry only collects the unfertilized Easter eggs, you know?

[Semper Idem]

jimmyjet wrote

this does not follow correct logic, or even close.

each of us has a right to our own life. it does not at all follow that we have a right to the things that sustain life.

we simply do not have the right to take another's life, that is completely innocent.

we can certainly do something in our lives that causes our lives to be forfeited, such as murdering someone else.

the unborn has done no such thing.

Sorry for the late response; my 'puter went south for a few days and posting a thoughtful response from an iPhone is like masturbating with tweezers. Anyhoo...

Being pro-life means exactly that, being in favour of sustaining human life. If your concern for life ends at birth, you're simply anti-abortion. That's why, in the USA, the right to a fair trial includes the right to a lawyer, and the state will provide a public defender to the destitute. It's the same way here; if something is a universal right, then the things needed to sustain that right must be accessible to all. This includes subsidizing that right for those who cannot afford it (see my example about public defenders for destitute people in the dock).

I suggest you read up about the consistent life ethic AKA seamless garment. I think you'd be surprised at to what pro-life truly means - and it ain't just anti-abortion, either.

[dogpet]

So what about young ladies who don't know they've been invaded till it's too late? 60% in young offenders institutions have been in the care of local authority!
Can someone pure of tongue ask the dipshit if he thinks woman's sanitary products should be tax free?

[jimmyjet]

hi semper,

this thread is about abortion. and as i stated, "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are just acronyms given to the 2 stances on abortion.

all the other life issues are just that - different issues.

we probably think the same on some of them, differently on others.

but a complete conversation could be started on any of them, that is separate from our discussion about abortion.

[Michael]

So I haven't posted for a bit because I only have my ipad and honestly writing out this stuff on a digital keypad is tiresome and too time consuming to do sometimes. However, since today is 'you literally can't do anything Friday', I have some spare time on my hands.

we celebrate our birthday based on the day of our birth.
and it is just that - a celebration.
it states nothing about our life inside the womb.

My point with that- and one that I noticed you in no way tried to disagree with - is that our society considers our 'life' to begin upon exiting the womb. If I remember correctly it was simply a precursor argument to counter some statement you made and to set up my argument. You'll have to forgive me as I don't remember the exact set-up that caused me to remark this and don't feel that going back to re-hash this would be particularly rewarding as far as this discussion goes.

Having said that, my statement remains true. We as a society consider 'life' to begin at birth. You try telling a bartender that actually, a 17-and-a-half year old has been alive for more than 18 years if you count gestation (if you count gestation) and see if that results in him getting his first beer. Hint: it won't.

"society" makes all sorts of legal rules, all about this. even abortion is not legal, past a certain point.

That is true.

and all of this is about whether the fetus has become a human being.

No. It's about a lot more than that. When you simplify and black-and-white the issue (as people against abortion generally tend to do), you want to phrase the argument only in terms that will help support your argument. Hence why earlier in this thread you stated the argument as "killing unborn babies" or "not killing unborn babies". This allows you to frame the argument in terms that only help your particular viewpoint.
This also means that you completely disregard the rights of the other people involved. After all, it takes three people to make a baby, and you would completely disregard the rights of two of those people in your argument.
Hell, even this is unfair because in order for me to explain it to you I've realised that I've had to frame my argument in terms that are beneficial to you, in describing the pre-birth as a person. As such, I will no longer be doing so. Now I need a new name for that. So far the best I have is pre-birth (and even I don't like that term. Surely there is a better medical term I can find).

See what I mean, your entire argument hinges on framing the argument in a way beneficial to you and ignoring the rights of the actual people involved.

so according to this ridiculous idea that we are not life at conception, then that means that there is some exact microsecond at which we become a human.

As much as there's an exact generation at which we evolved in homo sapiens sapiens. Which is to say, it's not that simple.

if you want to take the position that we do at birth, that is your prerogative.

Once again, you're trying to frame the discussion in ways that only benefit your argument, and I won't do that.
This is more to consider than what you propose.

but that is not what our society says. no, it is after the first trimester, before the brain shows development, or whatever other physical hogwash one cares to mention.

I will need to do more research and reading before I go down this line of discussion.

can you read ? i gave you no such theistic argument. i said biology 101.

I believe, if I remember correctly, that you took the wrong insinuation from my statement. When I said 'we have not heard a good secular argument that is against abortion' or whatever my wording was, I did not mean your argument was good, but theistic.
I meant that your argument may be secular, but it's not particularly good. I hope that clears it up.

[jimmyjet]

hi michael,

there are no rights to discuss about the parents, as they have none, when it comes down to murdering someone.

each couple has the right to choose whether they want to have sex.

once they make their choice, and that choice results in a new life, they have no right to get rid of the unborn - any more than they have the right to get rid of anyone else.

it is so, so simple.

either one condones murder, or one tries to rationalize that the unborn is not human.

and of course, the rationalization is what is currently done.

biology 101 defeats the rationalization.

and as i previously stated, our birthday is a celebration day. for one, we know the exact minute of birth, or at least pretty close.

abortion is simply a couple's way of not taking responsibility for their sexual actions.

men want to be able to act on their sexual urges without any further responsibility, except to fork over some money once in awhile when accidents happen.

women want it because they know that sex is about the only way they have of having some sort of control in a relationship.

just look at the ridiculous dysfunctionality in society today. that is if you are actually old enough to remember when shows like leave it to beaver reflected the values in society.

sometimes it is hard to know that one is swimming around in a cesspool, when a cesspool is the only thing they have ever experienced.

[Davin]

Seems like the smeg gobbling, anal herpes that is CreepyJimmyJerry is still here... I almost wonder what the sad mentally deficient, anal fisted, woman hating fucker is saying, but then I doubt that it's anything that millions of equally dumbfounded dipshits haven't said before.

[jimmyjet]

Michael wrote

My point with that- and one that I noticed you in no way tried to disagree with - is that our society considers our 'life' to begin upon exiting the womb.

yes, i did disagree with this.

i mentioned now twice that the celebration of our "birth" says nothing one way or the other about our "life".

in fact, even our society makes abortion illegal after some "point" - when we become a human.

humans love to celebrate. they take about any event that they can dream up, and celebrate to it.

our "birth" is certainly a very significant moment in our "life".

for most of us, it occurs approximately 9 months after our life has started.

so by all means, celebrate it. celebrate our wedding day, the day we first kissed, the day we first held hands, etc. etc.

i am not at all knocking celebrating our birthday, or any other day if it makes people happy.

it says absolutely nothing about society talking about when our life starts.

abortion is about the easiest black and white issue there is.

and once again, people would not be rationalizing about it, if it did not interfere with their sexual activity.

the truth hurts. but i will continue to state it.

and people will continue to jump up and down in a tizzy, instead of admitting what just about everyone knows is true.

cuz then it forces people to actually take responsibility for their actions - something that in the past was engrained into our behavior.

but now, there is always someone else to blame - you know, like the poor unborn baby.

let me see, if we all act like the emperor without his clothes, we can rationalize that it is not yet a human !!

it is absolutely and positively the stupidest rationalization i have heard in a long, long time.

unfortunately, that rationalization is murdering millions of human beings, who are totally unable to defend themselves.