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Old 06-04-2007, 08:27 AM   #376
Lily
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Sternwallow wrote
Her evidence, as she said, is the book of Acts. How, she must wonder, could the book of Acts have been written if there had not been apostles? Since the author of that book was obviously both observant and truthful, there must have been apostles just as he wrote. In addition, the existence of apostles ensures that Jesus was actually God (ref: Koresh, Jones etc...).:vomit:
Ridiculous. When you descend into this sort of fatuous dishonesty, there is nothing left to do but leave you to it.

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Ah, dishonesty, you say?

Weren't you the poster who identified Acts as the key document for the veracity of the Gospels and the Apostles through their various sacrifices and martyrdom?
No. I recommended reading it in order to see how the Apostles presented their case to skeptical and sometimes hostile audiences.

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Are you not the person who used the claim that the Biblical authors were eyeball witnesses and people of good standing and truthful, as evidence that the things they wrote about were factual?
No. The Gospels we have were written later. However they record the testimony of eye-witnesses.

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Have not the leaders of all cults, no matter how depraved, obtained their influence from a coterie of sycophants, often willing to commit suicide?
Irrelevant, despite your triumphant and fatuous certainty that the parallel you wish to draw somehow ends the discussion.

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Evidently my anticipation of the probable tone of a Lily response struck too close to the bone. Ridiculous? Perhaps not.
It should be easy for anyone with an IQ above 50 to predict how I will react to intellectual dishonesty and/or willful stupidity by now.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:31 AM   #377
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Irr, you are becoming just like the others. You are starting to pounce without thinking. The context of my message should have made clear that "we" referred to Christians.

Beyond that, I would suggest that you listen to the quite interesting McGrath / Dawkins discussion (link is in the similarly named thread). If you pay particular attention to McGrath, you may come away with a better idea of what I believe.
I am not becoming like anyone. Remember, we're practically peers when it comes to how much time we both have spent on this planet. I've been around long enough to have a mind of my own.
I was referring to your manners. Not to your having or not having a mind of your own.
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:53 AM   #378
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Lily wrote
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Lily wrote
Irr, you are becoming just like the others. You are starting to pounce without thinking. The context of my message should have made clear that "we" referred to Christians.

Beyond that, I would suggest that you listen to the quite interesting McGrath / Dawkins discussion (link is in the similarly named thread). If you pay particular attention to McGrath, you may come away with a better idea of what I believe.
I am not becoming like anyone. Remember, we're practically peers when it comes to how much time we both have spent on this planet. I've been around long enough to have a mind of my own.
I was referring to your manners. Not to your having or not having a mind of your own.
I have good manners.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
--Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:55 AM   #379
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The fact that you haven't once told the bovinic one to go fuck herself proves that your manners are impeccable. You need not lower yourself to the level of defending your manners against her lunatic ravings.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:01 AM   #380
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Indeed. Lily often refers to SteveG as a "saint." Well, Irreligious and Sternwallow are our saints. Months and months and months of nothing but civil attempts at polite conversation and they are spit on repeatedly.

I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:07 AM   #381
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Surely no one could withstand such brutal treatment as they have unless what they stood for was right. Praise Athe!

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:12 AM   #382
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Indeed. Lily often refers to SteveG as a "saint." Well, Irreligious and Sternwallow are our saints. Months and months and months of nothing but civil attempts at polite conversation and they are spit on repeatedly.
What rot. I have never "spit" on irr. I am pointing out that the exquisite manners that he always displayed when he first got here are not nearly as evident or, at least, as exquiste now.

Stern does not make polite conversation with me. But his frequent insults are much more subtle than the usual here, so you may not have noticed them. I do, as he correctly anticipates.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:14 AM   #383
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I am not becoming like anyone. Remember, we're practically peers when it comes to how much time we both have spent on this planet. I've been around long enough to have a mind of my own.
I was referring to your manners. Not to your having or not having a mind of your own.
I have good manners.
Yes, you do. But they are not as often on display with me as they once always were. I already told you once that I feared this place would coarsen you, as it has me. I hold to that view.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:16 AM   #384
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Lily wrote
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Professor Chaos wrote
Indeed. Lily often refers to SteveG as a "saint." Well, Irreligious and Sternwallow are our saints. Months and months and months of nothing but civil attempts at polite conversation and they are spit on repeatedly.
What rot. I have never "spit" on irr. I am pointing out that the exquisite manners he displayed when he first got here are not nearly as evident now.
What a total pile of capital-N Nonsense. As always, his manners were impeccable. Please point out how they were otherwise.

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Lily wrote
Stern does not make polite conversation with me. But his frequent insults are much more subtle than the usual here, so you may not have noticed them. I do, as he correctly anticipates.
He did and still, mostly, does. On the infrequent occasions where he resorts to a "subtle" insult, it's simply a matter of being unable to continue to turn the other cheek.

I will grieve. Grief is not a theistic concept. ~ Sternwallow
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:17 AM   #385
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Yes, you do. But they are not as often on display with me as they once always were.
Only natural, of course, as you've been wearing him down since you showed up. He's only human, after all; his patience has a limit, and I have to imagine that you've pushed him closer to it than he's been in some time.

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Old 06-04-2007, 09:18 AM   #386
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Professor Chaos wrote
Indeed. Lily often refers to SteveG as a "saint." Well, Irreligious and Sternwallow are our saints. Months and months and months of nothing but civil attempts at polite conversation and they are spit on repeatedly.
What rot. I have never "spit" on irr. I am pointing out that the exquisite manners he displayed when he first got here are not nearly as evident now.
What a total pile of capital-N Nonsense. As always, his manners were impeccable. Please point out how they were otherwise.

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Lily wrote
Stern does not make polite conversation with me. But his frequent insults are much more subtle than the usual here, so you may not have noticed them. I do, as he correctly anticipates.
He did and still, mostly, does. On the infrequent occasions where he resorts to a "subtle" insult, it's simply a matter of being unable to continue to turn the other cheek.
You are mistaken. He is virtually always insulting. I respond, exactly as he intended. He is simply a much more intelligent and much more subtle version of Mad Tony. You can thank your lucky stars that I will not respond to that lunatic (AJF). Then you would see blood drawn.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:20 AM   #387
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:lol:

...wait, wait...

:lol:

I promise not to draw blood if you respond to me, dearie.

atheist (n): one who remains unconvinced.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:24 AM   #388
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Lily, I cuss a bit and enjoy ribald humor, but I am not a coarse person by nature. I am occasionally terse with you (as you are with me), but I have never disrespected you. I have never called you names, called you stupid or said anything to impugn your character. I merely disagree with you and vociferously so. That's all.

Edited: I am compelled to add that the vehemence with which I attack your assertions should not be construed as a personal assault on you, Lily, the human being. I respect her (always have), even if I do not necessarily respect all of her opinions.

But let's be real here for a minute, Lily: You certainly do not respect most of my opinions, and you often respond to me as if I were not a 50-year-old, colleged educated man. Still, I don't take it personally. This is a forum to hash out our views. You are the rare theist among atheists here. Of course, you're going to feel abused here. I'd expect no less if I ventured into a theistic setting with my own bold assertions. I have always given you props for your stamina and tenacity. But we're gonna disagree. Often, if not always. Just remember: With me, at least, it ain't personal.

"So many gods, so many creeds! So many paths that wind and wind, when just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs."
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:13 AM   #389
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Lily wrote
Beyond that, I would suggest that you listen to the quite interesting McGrath / Dawkins discussion (link is in the similarly named thread). If you pay particular attention to McGrath, you may come away with a better idea of what I believe.
Or if you can't get the link to work and there are some crazy christ-junkie hobos in your area you could give them a listen and find out that way the basics of what Lily believes.

You can always turn tricks for a few extra bucks. If looks are an issue, there's the glory hole option, but don't expect more than ... tips.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:19 AM   #390
Lily
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Lily, I cuss a bit and enjoy ribald humor, but I am not a coarse person by nature. I am occasionally terse with you (as you are with me), but I have never disrespected you. I have never called you names, called you stupid or said anything to impugn your character. I merely disagree with you and vociferously so. That's all.

Edited: I am compelled to add that the vehemence with which I attack your assertions should not be construed as a personal assault on you, Lily, the human being. I respect her (always have), even if I do not necessarily respect all of her opinions.

But let's be real here for a minute, Lily: You certainly do not respect most of my opinions, and you often respond to me as if I were not a 50-year-old, colleged educated man. Still, I don't take it personally. This is a forum to hash out our views. You are the rare theist among atheists here. Of course, you're going to feel abused here. I'd expect no less if I ventured into a theistic setting with my own bold assertions. I have always given you props for your stamina and tenacity. But we're gonna disagree. Often, if not always. Just remember: With me, at least, it ain't personal.
Irr, I have told you and am pleased to repeat that I really, really like you. I feel reasonably certain that I would really, really like you in real life.

I am not saying that you are rude or coarse or anything like that. You are not. I am saying that I see a difference between today and some months back when you first appeared on the scene. I fear that you will lose some of that really remarkable human kindness you displayed back then, if you identify too closely with the forum culture here.

I don't disrespect your opinions-- at least I only know 2 of them. One I agree with; Hedwig was a terrific movie. The other I respect because I think it is philosophically defensible. But not on grounds that depend on the genuine misunderstanding of Christianity or dishonesty regarding what it claims and how it grounds those claims.

Maybe we will find other areas of agreement if we ever talk about our favorite cuisines (me=Thai, Indian), colors, vacation spots, etc.
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