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Old 03-27-2018, 04:51 PM   #4111
Simon Moon
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Andrew66 wrote View Post
A few points.

First off, the historic truth of stories or accounts in the bible are mostly validated, not by external sources, but rather by differing authors within the Bible.
Only partially true. That is one step.

So, if the history of the Bible is so accurate, when was Jesus born? 4 BC or 7 AD?

There is zero evidence that the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt. At the supposed time of the Exodus, the entire population of Egypt was 3 million. What do you suppose would have happened to the economy of Egypt of over 2 million people left Egypt at the same time? Funny thing is, the Egyption economy did not crash at that time.

The infant Jesus was taken into Egypt (Matt. 2:14, 15, 19, 21, 23). The infant Jesus was not taken into Egypt (Luke 2:22, 39.)

John was in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (Mark 1:14.). John was not in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (John 1:43, John 3:22, 23, 24.)

Jesus was crucified in the 3rd hour (Mark 15:25.). Jesus was not crucified until the 6th hour (John 19:14, 15.).

I could go on....

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As I keep telling everyone here, it is not that important to find an External source to the Bible to validate the truth of the Bible. The Bible is 66 books, most written by differing authors, the differing books can authenticate other books passages.

But all the authors believed.

They had an agenda.

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You mention how can supernatural appearing claims be validated. Obviously a scholar would have to look at any such claim with extreme skeptism. But as I have written the main "supernatural" claim in the bible which serves as the basis to the Christian faith is validated by mainstream historic scholarship in that there is general agreement that

a) Jesus existed
b) Jesus died on the cross under Pontious Pilate
c) Followers genuinely believed to see Jesus post mortum.
None of that, even if true, demonstrates anything supernatural.

a) Most scholars agree that the Biblical Jesus character was most likely based on a real person. There is no claim to certainty.

b) Could have happened. There were 1000's of crucifictions at the time, and Yeshua was a common name then.

c) So what if followers genuinely believed? And how do you prove that they did? Again, the texts were written decades or longer after the alleged events, by anonymous authors, who were not eyewitnesses to any of the events. So, how do you tell if they are reliable?

I can interview 1000's of people alive today, that genuinely believe they were abducted by aliens. Just because they genuinely believe it, should we believe they are relaying true events? This is not even hearsay, like the Bible.

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You can try to deny a, b and/ or c, but each assertion unto themselves holds intellectual water. To deny the resurrection narrative (truth of resurrection) one has to ignore historic scholarship type skeptical analysis of the records.
Not this again....

Do you really believe that modern secular historians believe the resurrection took place? This is not even being taught at the best theology departments at the best universities.

The most that can be said, is the Bible records stories claiming that the people, in the stories, believed the resurrection took place.

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I'm glad you saw the merit of my argument that just because the concept regarding the divinity of the Words of the Bible is circular - that bares no weight - one cannot tell - if the conclusion is true or untrue. For this reason it really shouldn't be mentioned in Atheistic rhetoric - no value.
Well, then, that point I made went completely over your head. I am too lazy to try to explain it again.
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:55 PM   #4112
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JerryJohn wrote View Post
Simon,

Andrew and I know who you are and what screen name you previously posted under. It is so obvious. That's OK, sometimes someone needs a change.

I still find it odd you changed your user name though considering you were never rude or insulting in any way.

Why did you do it again? I know you posted it once but to be honest I didn't pay too much attention to that post, until soon it became obvious who you are and then I was too lazy quite frankly to read through a bunch of crapola atheist posts to find it.

Why?

JJ
I changed my account, because my old account was corrupted when the forum was moved to the new server.

I was able to login with my old account, but could not post on any threads. I received "access denied" errors.

The admins tried to fix my old account, bur were unable to.

Thus the new account.
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:09 PM   #4113
Kinich Ahau
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Mary/JJ, what name do you think Simon used to post under? What's the mystery? Whatever it is you think, I bet you are wrong as usual.

Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:19 PM   #4114
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K, your posts add no value to any conversation on this thread, thus there is no need for you to post on my thread anymore.

Spend your time on something constructive that you can add value to or serve others with the time you would have spent here.

JJ
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:26 PM   #4115
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I can post anywhere I want, whenever I want, unlike you. If my posts annoy you then I will have achieved one of my goals on this forum. Being a thorn in your fat side gives me great pleasure so I won't be going anywhere.

Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:29 PM   #4116
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Mary/JJ, what name do you think Simon used to post under? What's the mystery? Whatever it is you think, I bet you are wrong as usual.

I know JJ and Andrew are hardly ever correct, but my previous username was no much different than my current one.

So, their level of intellect is probabley enough to figure it out.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:31 PM   #4117
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I think you might be underestimating even their level of stupid. I'm pretty sure they thought you where someone else, someone they had engaged with in the recent past.

Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:34 PM   #4118
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I'm delighted to laugh heartily at the top of the google search list that "Trolling Fuckwit" throws up.

Stop the Holy See men!
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:55 PM   #4119
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Fucking awesome! The undisputed king of trolling fuckwits.

Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:43 PM   #4120
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I can post anywhere I want, whenever I want, unlike you. If my posts annoy you then I will have achieved one of my goals on this forum. Being a thorn in your fat side gives me great pleasure so I won't be going anywhere.
Don't flatter yoursellf. I actually don't give a shit if you post or not. Your posts are worthless most of the time but they are short so easy to read through and delete.

Not much thought process needed to comprehend yours.

JJ
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:51 PM   #4121
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Simon Moon wrote View Post
Only partially true. That is one step.

So, if the history of the Bible is so accurate, when was Jesus born? 4 BC or 7 AD?

There is zero evidence that the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt. At the supposed time of the Exodus, the entire population of Egypt was 3 million. What do you suppose would have happened to the economy of Egypt of over 2 million people left Egypt at the same time? Funny thing is, the Egyption economy did not crash at that time.

The infant Jesus was taken into Egypt (Matt. 2:14, 15, 19, 21, 23). The infant Jesus was not taken into Egypt (Luke 2:22, 39.)

John was in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (Mark 1:14.). John was not in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (John 1:43, John 3:22, 23, 24.)

Jesus was crucified in the 3rd hour (Mark 15:25.). Jesus was not crucified until the 6th hour (John 19:14, 15.).

I could go on....




But all the authors believed.

They had an agenda.



None of that, even if true, demonstrates anything supernatural.

a) Most scholars agree that the Biblical Jesus character was most likely based on a real person. There is no claim to certainty.

b) Could have happened. There were 1000's of crucifictions at the time, and Yeshua was a common name then.

c) So what if followers genuinely believed? And how do you prove that they did? Again, the texts were written decades or longer after the alleged events, by anonymous authors, who were not eyewitnesses to any of the events. So, how do you tell if they are reliable?

I can interview 1000's of people alive today, that genuinely believe they were abducted by aliens. Just because they genuinely believe it, should we believe they are relaying true events? This is not even hearsay, like the Bible.



Not this again....

Do you really believe that modern secular historians believe the resurrection took place? This is not even being taught at the best theology departments at the best universities.

The most that can be said, is the Bible records stories claiming that the people, in the stories, believed the resurrection took place.



Well, then, that point I made went completely over your head. I am too lazy to try to explain it again.
You don't need to it yet again; we understood the first time. You are wrong and we disagree with you.

JJ
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:51 PM   #4122
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Simon Moon wrote View Post
Only partially true. That is one step.

So, if the history of the Bible is so accurate, when was Jesus born? 4 BC or 7 AD?

There is zero evidence that the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt. At the supposed time of the Exodus, the entire population of Egypt was 3 million. What do you suppose would have happened to the economy of Egypt of over 2 million people left Egypt at the same time? Funny thing is, the Egyption economy did not crash at that time.

The infant Jesus was taken into Egypt (Matt. 2:14, 15, 19, 21, 23). The infant Jesus was not taken into Egypt (Luke 2:22, 39.)

John was in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (Mark 1:14.). John was not in prison when Jesus went to Galilee (John 1:43, John 3:22, 23, 24.)

Jesus was crucified in the 3rd hour (Mark 15:25.). Jesus was not crucified until the 6th hour (John 19:14, 15.).

I could go on....
Of course there are differences and errors. This is normal, and advantageously shows the academic honesty of the Church who compiled the Bible - they dared not edit and harmonize the text in fear they would get it wrong, even though the differences are embarrassing.

The details differ, but the most important themes are consistent - the themes that matter theologically.

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Simon Moon wrote View Post
But all the authors believed.

They had an agenda.
How the hell do you know what was in the author's minds, or what was their agenda. Alot of the scriptures are just historical accounts, written well before the Church was properly formed - so how could there by an agenda. ?

Your comment reaks of impermissible hindsight in light of the disclosure, and is largely speculative.

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Simon Moon wrote View Post

The most that can be said, is the Bible records stories claiming that the people, in the stories, believed the resurrection took place.
Yes, Yes, at least you got this part right.

They believed, truly believed truly truly truly believed, so much so that the story rocketed to the number one, most famous and popular story of human history. I wonder why???
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:15 PM   #4123
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Andrew66 wrote View Post
Of course there are differences and errors. This is normal, and advantageously shows the academic honesty of the Church who compiled the Bible - they dared not edit and harmonize the text in fear they would get it wrong, even though the differences are embarrassing.

The details differ, but the most important themes are consistent - the themes that matter theologically.



How the hell do you know what was in the author's minds, or what was their agenda. Alot of the scriptures are just historical accounts, written well before the Church was properly formed - so how could there by an agenda. ?

Your comment reaks of impermissible hindsight in light of the disclosure, and is largely speculative.



Yes, Yes, at least you got this part right.

They believed, truly believed truly truly truly believed, so much so that the story rocketed to the number one, most famous and popular story of human history. I wonder why???
I know why, because people long for the truth and Christians have it. There is no one that can forgive your sins and give you everlasting life but Jesus Christ, the son of God if you choose to repent and ask for it.

Celebrate the resurrection on Easter Sunday this year. Don't get drunk all day or spend the day using drugs. Try something different.

If you reject that and don't want to be held accountable for evil deeds, actions, words and thoughts then by all means do so. Rot away in your graves or sadly hell for those of you who not only deny but mock God as well.

Perhaps it won't be too funny anymore. Feel free to find out, but that decision once made and held to unto death will be a permanent one and the consequences will be as well.

Galatians 6:7 NIV

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

JJ
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:40 PM   #4124
hertz vanrental
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god on a stick week and Lord Shiva

During god on a stick week, Lord Shiva will be observing.

He will observe they that lead people to believe in false gods such as lard ass and zombie boy and he will punish them severely for their sins. But he will also punish those that follow their leaders for they are naught but sheep and afford their leaders the power that they crave. They will be punished more severely for theirs is the greater sin.

Do I sound like a fuckin' people person?
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:42 PM   #4125
hertz vanrental
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mary, mary with a top lip that's hairy
how did your church grow?
with bells and smells
and threats of hell
and kiddy fiddlers all in a row!!

Do I sound like a fuckin' people person?
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