What if God is real (when you die)? - Page 2

Saturday · 05-14-2013, 09:02 PM

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9opiles wrote

God is a concept. Some believe it is an eternal concept, some believe it isn't.

Well the point of this thread was what if you met God when you died so the hypothetical basis is that God is in fact real...

Quote:

9opiles wrote

If you can imagine an entire universe without the need for labels, then you can understand what I said.

I still don't understand what you're saying. A universe without labels is still the universe. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the synapses and electrical connections in the brains of the beings that you modified to not use labels.

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9opiles wrote

However, I also believe that there are things within life and the human imagination that cannot, or do not exist in that state outside of the human imagination.

Give me a couple examples. And how would you go about proving the impossibility of these things?

Quote:

9opiles wrote

that it would need to be logically defined in order to exist in any fashion because we created the concept in the first place.

Existence is not dependent on whether anyone has put a name to anything. Are you saying that Pluto did not exist before it was discovered in 1930?

9opiles · 05-14-2013, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Saturday wrote

Well the point of this thread was what if you met God when you died so the hypothetical basis is that God is in fact real...

I still don't understand what you're saying. A universe without labels is still the universe. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the synapses and electrical connections in the brains of the beings that you modified to not use labels.

Give me a couple examples. And how would you go about proving the impossibility of these things?

Existence is not dependent on whether anyone has put a name to anything. Are you saying that Pluto did not exist before it was discovered in 1930?

Things exist whether we name them, label them, or identify them. Pluto existed for as long as it existed, no matter whether life is here on this planet or not.
Things exist independently of us. As mentioned in my long post, even if one dies and it ends up being real, it could still be only within life itself. Life itself is a part of, yet independent of physical existence outside of the immediate area in which we perceive.

If I imagine a tire talking to me while smoking a cigarette and getting a blowjob, that is something that does not exist in real life; there are certain fundamental rules to physical existence when it comes to reality, such as, tires do not speak, have cocks, or smoke cigarettes. Yet, I am able to create this image in my mind, and even make it talk if I so desire. This is an impossible reality outside of human perception. So thus, if I can create that thought, then I can create a false godman who wants to destroy its own creation and gives decrees via the bible, if I so desire, not only because I can write it down in words, but because it can be imagined...created from the experiences of those that created the story. I'm saying that, even if that God you speak of is real, it wouldn't exist anyway because who says the dead leave life anyway? It would be a person trapped within the beliefs and minds of those who believe it in the first place. With no one there to believe it, there would be no God in the first place. So thus, is the neverending cycle of it being relative to those that created it.

A deception, as it were. Even if it was real.

Saturday · 05-14-2013, 09:40 PM

Quote:

9opiles wrote

This is an impossible reality outside of human perception.

I think you would have trouble saying that a tire without a cock incapable of having a conversation or smoking a cig is physically impossible. Just off the top of my head I can think of how we can make it possible. We can give it mechanical lungs, cut a whole for a mouth, add a rubber protuberance for a penis, hire a crackwhore that will suck on rubber for 5 bucks, and insert a small computer with cleverbot loaded onto it. Done. Not only is it possible, like tomorrow if I wanted to spend the money to do this, but it's certainly possible considering all of the possibilities contained within this universe and perhaps the hypothetical multiverse. I just don't know how you think you are going to prove that negative.

Quote:

9opiles wrote

I'm saying that, even if that God you speak of is real, it wouldn't exist anyway because who says the dead leave life anyway?

Okay, in the hypothetical scenario I created with this thread. We are accepting that God actually exists, both inside the mind and outside the mind. What you are saying is that "even if God exists, he does not exist." That is a contradiction.

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9opiles wrote

A deception, as it were. Even if it was real.

If you are just trying to point out that my hypothetical scenario is absurd then I totally agree with you because I haven't even defined the type of God or anything like that. I was just writing it for fun. If you think this is the case, then I could rewrite it in a way that makes more sense by appealing only to sense experience.

Instead of imposing knowledge in my scenario I could just say,

The last thing you remembered, you were on a hospital bed, dying. You experienced a blackness similar to that of sleep for an undefined period of time. You are now aware of yourself but you feel strange. You see only a bright light in every direction. The light starts talking in the voice of William Lane Craig. "You are here to amuse me for eternity along with all the other dead. I can read your thoughts as if they were my own and your thinking pleases me. That is why you were created and that will be your existence forever." You try to talk to it but it says nothing. You look down, or at least you think you're looking down and you don't see your body. You don't even see your nose. You wait what you estimate was 5 days and it does not respond to you're trying to talk to it. What do you think and what do you do?

There I've removed all the fiat knowledge portions of the scenario that could potentially cause a problem.

9opiles · 05-14-2013, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Saturday wrote

I think you would have trouble saying that a tire without a cock incapable of having a conversation or smoking a cig is physically impossible. Just off the top of my head I can think of how we can make it possible. We can give it mechanical lungs, cut a whole for a mouth, add a rubber protuberance for a penis, hire a crackwhore that will suck on rubber for 5 bucks, and insert a small computer with cleverbot loaded onto it. Done. Not only is it possible, like tomorrow if I wanted to spend the money to do this, but it's certainly possible considering all of the possibilities contained within this universe and perhaps the hypothetical multiverse. I just don't know how you think you are going to prove that negative.

You still created it. You simply interpreted that thought and made it manifest by building a model of it. That did not exist outside of your mind.

Quote:

Okay, in the hypothetical scenario I created with this thread. We are accepting that God actually exists, both inside the mind and outside the mind. What you are saying is that "even if God exists, he does not exist." That is a contradiction.

I'm saying it would be an illusion because you defined the God as being the Abrahamic God. That comes with the rules assigned and applied by them. In order for it to physically exist, it would need to exist externally from religious definition.

Quote:

If you are just trying to point out that my hypothetical scenario is absurd then I totally agree with you because I haven't even defined the type of God or anything like that. If you think this is the case, then I could rewrite it in a way that makes more sense.

No, I admittedly have a disdain for hypothetical things, as the Abrahamic religions thrive on it.

No need to rewrite, essentially, I get stuck on questions like this because I cannot help but consider the inadequacies these religions present in terms of definition and what exactly they imply. Their shortcomings supercede any hypothetical situation because I cannot help but analyze it in the way I've done in previous posts. So, absurd? A little. I just wonder how many people would consider the idea of calling themselves God, and believing it.

ILOVEJESUS · 05-15-2013, 10:22 AM

I am God and so is my wife!

9opiles · 05-15-2013, 12:56 PM

I'd ask "Is your name Roy G. Biv?" No matter what the answer, I'd then demand to speak to a Physicist. Or I'd start thinking about light itself and take it from there.

That God person isn't going to enslave me forever, and I'd likely end up wanting to somehow destroy it as Asimov, but, because I'm kind, I imagine it would more likely be a puzzle that one must solve to gain one's freedom.

Quote:

Saturday wrote

I think you would have trouble saying that a tire without a cock incapable of having a conversation or smoking a cig is physically impossible. Just off the top of my head I can think of how we can make it possible. We can give it mechanical lungs, cut a whole for a mouth, add a rubber protuberance for a penis, hire a crackwhore that will suck on rubber for 5 bucks, and insert a small computer with cleverbot loaded onto it. Done. Not only is it possible, like tomorrow if I wanted to spend the money to do this, but it's certainly possible considering all of the possibilities contained within this universe and perhaps the hypothetical multiverse. I just don't know how you think you are going to prove that negative.

Okay, in the hypothetical scenario I created with this thread. We are accepting that God actually exists, both inside the mind and outside the mind. What you are saying is that "even if God exists, he does not exist." That is a contradiction.

If you are just trying to point out that my hypothetical scenario is absurd then I totally agree with you because I haven't even defined the type of God or anything like that. I was just writing it for fun. If you think this is the case, then I could rewrite it in a way that makes more sense by appealing only to sense experience.

Instead of imposing knowledge in my scenario I could just say,

The last thing you remembered, you were on a hospital bed, dying. You experienced a blackness similar to that of sleep for an undefined period of time. You are now aware of yourself but you feel strange. You see only a bright light in every direction. The light starts talking in the voice of William Lane Craig. "You are here to amuse me for eternity along with all the other dead. I can read your thoughts as if they were my own and your thinking pleases me. That is why you were created and that will be your existence forever." You try to talk to it but it says nothing. You look down, or at least you think you're looking down and you don't see your body. You don't even see your nose. You wait what you estimate was 5 days and it does not respond to you're trying to talk to it. What do you think and what do you do?

There I've removed all the fiat knowledge portions of the scenario that could potentially cause a problem.

ghoulslime · 05-16-2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

ILOVEJESUS wrote

I am God and so is my wife!

I have some bad news for you, God! I'm going to be fucking your ass and cumming in your face.

ILOVEJESUS · 05-17-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

ghoulslime wrote

I have some bad news for you, God! I'm going to be fucking your ass and cumming in your face.

You will have to resort to face fucking first then arse cumming. I will not have it any other way.

alwinwarrens · 09-18-2013, 04:27 AM

Well if we remain immortal after we die, then whats the point of living now and struggling for living. Getting married, going for a job. Just let us be lazy immortal bums.

ILOVEJESUS · 09-18-2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

alwinwarrens wrote

Well if we remain immortal after we die, then whats the point of living now and struggling for living. Getting married, going for a job. Just let us be lazy immortal bums.

Well spotted.