07-31-2011, 02:12 PM
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#241
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mongrel Nation
Posts: 4,839
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Quote:
Victus wrote
What about individual humans; if a human is perfectly pious, does that mean that they won't be punished by God, even as those all around them were?
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We are all sinners. It would be vain to imagine we could worm our way into god*'s affections.
thank goodness he's on our side
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07-31-2011, 02:54 PM
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#242
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
Partial answer, though He made the first people perfect, He did not make them good enough to be perfectly pious or perfectly obedient. He stacked the deck.
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Then he got pissed off later that he had fucked up on his meat puppet creations, and drowned most of them in an act of maniacal rage. Cowpat's perfect god drowned most of humanity, because he couldn't get them to listen to his orders. What sort of fucked up projection is that for an omnipotent god? And the asshole couldn't see past his red eyes far enough to keep from wiping out babies and children. (Of course he saved a few seeds in Noah's happy boat in order to plant more monkey pets for himself later.)
This is the perfect being that Cowpat wants us to believe in?
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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07-31-2011, 02:55 PM
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#243
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,260
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Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
He stacked the deck.
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Sure, but that answer isn't available if you're a theist.
"When science was in its infancy, religion tried to strangle it in its cradle." - Robert G. Ingersoll
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07-31-2011, 04:35 PM
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#244
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Does God share my opinion?
Greetings;
Quote:
Did you ever see God naked? If your dad's opinions were perfect, by definition, how could you not share them?
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No I have never seen God naked. God's opinions are more than opinion they are truth. The original question "does God share my opinion." I can't answer for him. Perhaps you might ask him?
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07-31-2011, 04:38 PM
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#245
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Not a description of my God.
Greetings;
ghoulslime wrote:
Quote:
This is the perfect being that Cowpat wants us to believe in?
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That in no way describes the God I serve. It is up to you decide if you want to believe in any god. That's not my concern.
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07-31-2011, 04:53 PM
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#246
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Punishment as Behavior modification.
Greetings:
Victus wrote:
Quote:
Punishment is a form of behaviour modification. You punish behaviours you want less of. If humans as a group all followed the correct iteration of God to the letter, would there no longer be natural disasters?
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It is impossible to follow the correct iteration of God to the letter. Even if it were possible, it would not pay the penalty of natural disasters. God knew/knows that and sent his son to die as a substituteto pay the penalty for Adam's disobedience (sin/wrong choice).
Quote:
What about individual sub-groups of humans; if they were perfectly pious, would God spare them? What about individual humans; if a human is perfectly pious, does that mean that they won't be punished by God, even as those all around them were
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You are correct, if an individual human will accept Jesus paying our penalty by his death, they are spared death, the individual punishment. Rather the gift of God is eternal life. But we will still have natural disaster because the penalty for Adams choice is still in effect. After accepting a human doesn't have to be perfectly pious at all, just forgiven.
Last edited by colpat; 07-31-2011 at 04:58 PM.
Reason: complete a sentence
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07-31-2011, 05:08 PM
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#247
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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Quote:
colpat wrote
Greetings;
ghoulslime wrote: That in no way describes the God I serve. It is up to you decide if you want to believe in any god. That's not my concern.
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Liar.
You can fuck off now.
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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07-31-2011, 05:11 PM
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#248
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 860
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Well, this is just getting boring now. He's nothing but evidence-free assertions.
Colpat: There's no proof that your particular god even exists in the first place, so everything after that is moot.
Quote:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
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Charles Darwin.
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07-31-2011, 05:26 PM
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#249
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Obsessed Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,260
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Quote:
colpat wrote
It is impossible to follow the correct iteration of God to the letter.
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The implication of the being that humans are being punished for behaviours/beliefs that are beyond their control. Since the goal of punishment is to modify behaviour, we are left with two conclusions that are consistent with theism: 1) God is irrational or 2) God enjoys human suffering.
Or there's always door number three: there is no God.
Quote:
colpat wrote
Even if it were possible, it would not pay the penalty of natural disasters.
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Then natural disasters are a punishment out of proportion to the 'crime', see option 2 above.
Quote:
colpat wrote
God knew/knows that and sent his son to die as a substituteto pay the penalty for Adam's disobedience (sin/wrong choice).
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Why does one person dying absolve the crimes of another person, after they have been chucked off on the whole species. God must have a very arbitrary sense of justice.
Or he doesn't exist.
Quote:
colpat wrote
You are correct, if an individual human will accept Jesus paying our penalty by his death, they are spared death, the individual punishment.
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That's a testable prediction. Under similarly fatal conditions, are Christians less likely to die than non-Christians? Do you have any evidence on this?
"When science was in its infancy, religion tried to strangle it in its cradle." - Robert G. Ingersoll
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07-31-2011, 05:36 PM
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#250
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Thanks for second chance
Greetings;
Thanks - ghoulslime for giving me a second chance by reposting.
Quote:
Do you believe that humans evolved from more primitive life forms over the course of millions of years? (Let me know if my question is not clear.)
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No I do not beleive humans evolved from primitive life 4 million or even 4 billion years ago.
Quote:
Did god make Adam and Eve from the dust a few thousand years ago?[/
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Yes. Are you interested in my theory of how he did it?
Last edited by colpat; 07-31-2011 at 05:37 PM.
Reason: Add Title
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07-31-2011, 05:39 PM
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#251
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Whisper wrote
Well, this is just getting boring now. He's nothing but evidence-free assertions.
Colpat: There's no proof that your particular god even exists in the first place, so everything after that is moot.
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Greetings Whisper;
What would you accept as proof of God?
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07-31-2011, 05:51 PM
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#252
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
colpat wrote
Greetings;
ghoulslime wrote: That in no way describes the God I serve. It is up to you decide if you want to believe in any god. That's not my concern.
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That describes EXACTLY the imaginary god that you believe in. Either you are ignorant of your own Babble or you are a liar, or both.
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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07-31-2011, 05:52 PM
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#253
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
colpat wrote
Greetings:
Victus wrote:It is impossible to follow the correct iteration of God to the letter. Even if it were possible, it would not pay the penalty of natural disasters. God knew/knows that and sent his son to die as a substituteto pay the penalty for Adam's disobedience (sin/wrong choice).
You are correct, if an individual human will accept Jesus paying our penalty by his death, they are spared death, the individual punishment. Rather the gift of God is eternal life. But we will still have natural disaster because the penalty for Adams choice is still in effect. After accepting a human doesn't have to be perfectly pious at all, just forgiven.
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There was no Adam or Jesus. They are fictional characters in a Bronze Age book of nonsense, you crazy old man!
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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07-31-2011, 05:55 PM
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#254
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cyril, OK
Posts: 112
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Is the creature wiser than the creator?
Greetings Victus;
Quote:
The implication of the being that humans are being punished for behaviours/beliefs that are beyond their control. Since the goal of punishment is to modify behaviour, we are left with two conclusions that are consistent with theism: 1) God is irrational or 2) God enjoys human suffering.
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God made the rules. Man disobeyed those rules. God judged Adam guilty and imposed the penalty of death (separation from God). The purpose was not to modify behavior it was to enforce God's law. God is not irrational nor does God enjoy human suffering. If he was or did he would not have made a way, the only way to regain eternal life.
To think otherwise is to believe the creature is wiser than the creator.
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07-31-2011, 05:55 PM
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#255
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
colpat wrote
Greetings Whisper;
What would you accept as proof of God?
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Obviously, more than a delusional hillbilly from Oklahoma pounding on his Bible...
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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