01-12-2009, 06:03 PM
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#256
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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Quote:
happywarrior wrote
I wuv you to kate.
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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01-12-2009, 06:27 PM
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#257
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I Live Here
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA
Posts: 10,218
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Quote:
KnowledgeIsPower wrote
That's a form of emergence. So was my example.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/properties-emergent/
You'll find only passing references to self-organization. So I would call it incorrect to say "emergence is about self-organized systems" exclusively which seems like what you were implying.
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Not completely; of course, I didn't go into references to weak and strong emergence either. The key is "essence" - emergent properties from mechanical devices are a byproduct of thought, and the components arbitrary - we could just as easily substitute car, or boat, or motorcycle for airplane. This type of emergence has been around since we learned to make tools. Self-organized emergent properties are discoveries waiting to happen; someone with a specialization in AI should be able to see that. Remember Life? Do you see the difference between humans building an airplane and a few simple functions - be they mathematical or biological - that exhibit behavior worthy of being called emergence?
"Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbor." - Justin's Dad
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01-12-2009, 06:28 PM
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#258
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I Live Here
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA
Posts: 10,218
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Quote:
Kate wrote
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AAAAUUUGGGHH! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!1!!
Damn dream.
"Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbor." - Justin's Dad
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01-12-2009, 06:38 PM
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#259
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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01-12-2009, 06:47 PM
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#260
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Guest
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Quote:
Tenspace wrote
Not completely; of course, I didn't go into references to weak and strong emergence either. The key is "essence" - emergent properties from mechanical devices are a byproduct of thought, and the components arbitrary - we could just as easily substitute car, or boat, or motorcycle for airplane. This type of emergence has been around since we learned to make tools. Self-organized emergent properties are discoveries waiting to happen; someone with a specialization in AI should be able to see that. Remember Life? Do you see the difference between humans building an airplane and a few simple functions - be they mathematical or biological - that exhibit behavior worthy of being called emergence?
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Whether we want to consider my airplane example as worthy of being called emergence or not is irrelevant. I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong on that if you really think I am because it doesn't hurt my objection to ubs' argument because the brain is most certainly a self-organizing system. Also, arguing that as a whole, the brain can't do something because its constituent parts can't do it by themselves is a fallacy of division.
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01-12-2009, 07:04 PM
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#261
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
Kate wrote
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I like bunnies. I like them a lot. I am happy that somebody started this bunny thread so that we can all talk about bunnies.
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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01-12-2009, 07:17 PM
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#262
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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Bunnies, paste/glue, fire, peeps.
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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01-12-2009, 07:23 PM
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#263
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
Kate wrote
Bunnies, paste/glue, fire, peeps.
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I don't like to eat bunny peeps because I feel really bad when I bite the bunny. I don't mind the chicky peeps so much, except for when I first bite the head off.
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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01-12-2009, 07:27 PM
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#264
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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01-12-2009, 07:58 PM
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#265
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
Kate wrote
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That is so tacky and wacky. Keep it out of your cracky, Jacky.
The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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01-12-2009, 08:40 PM
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#266
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Guest
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01-12-2009, 09:17 PM
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#267
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I Live Here
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 20,925
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Quote:
KnowledgeIsPower wrote
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The Leprechauns do not forbid the drawing of Their images, as long as we color within the lines. ~ Ghoulslime H Christ, Prophet, Seer, Revelator, and Masturbator
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01-12-2009, 10:22 PM
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#268
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Guest
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So you see KIP, Free will seems to be in short supply here. LOL. Just a little prompting in the right direction and you can get a cascade of expected results. I must say there does seem to be a bit more of an effect than I had hoped for.Thank you all for participating in this test.
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01-13-2009, 07:15 AM
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#269
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Guest
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Free will and influence are not the same things Happy. To say that because you have influenced someone or something in a certain direction does not preclude free will in any way. If I say "chocolate chip cookie", and you just pictured a warm, fresh from the oven, chocolate chip cookie in your mind, does that eliminate free will because you thought about it? No, I merely influenced you (your brain specifically) to think about that.
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01-13-2009, 07:39 AM
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#270
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Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
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"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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