A Moral Question for Atheists

[Jimble]

Sternwallow wrote

That's a fairly common explanation for altruism and social cohesion but it doesn't address the high incidence of unnecessary violence we see daily between nations and within "tribes". When trade is such an effective distributor of necessities and transportation is so easy, the ordinary reasons for theft and murder, competition for scarce resources, fail.

"Dey tuk are ghobs!" is inadequate justification for mayhem against innocent immigrants.

But since trade and transportation are so new (boats, internet, money etc) evolutionarily speaking, wouldn't the innate drives of say.. being quick to anger when feeling threatened, still be as much a part of our natural behaviour as regarding the starving homeless man as part of our pack is?

Just as the homeless man isn't a part of my tribe, and won't be in a position to reciprocate next time we meet, our anger, jealousy etc haven't had much time to be tamed to live in our modern world either.

[Qlidnaque]

flight or fight response is a evolutionary remnant. These things were necessary in a world where we slept on the same land that lions roamed. Technically, humans are not genetically well adapted to the world we live in today. Nobody faces danger of being eaten by a tiger, especially if your living in the city, yet we still carry around the gene to fear tigers and darkness (time of day where humans were most like to die - probably opposite for nocturnal animals)

I'm pretty sure every human emotion can be explained back to its evolutionary roots, so just as I have the more likely, positive feeling of sentiment of not torturing the tied up person on the deserted island (given that the tied up individual isn't a psychopath), I also carry around the emotional baggage of facing anger, jealousy, fear, etc.

Take humiliation for example. When your in a social circle of say 50 tribesman and woman, if you get humiliated somehow, your status within the tribe will be affected and it will have serious implications on how successful you are in replicating and passing on your genes. Worse yet, if you get kicked out of your tribe, your pretty much dead meat in the wild. That's why people have a tendancy of wanting to get along well with others and not torture or kill them unnecessarily. Once again, we are living in cities with 5 millioin in population, with genes equiped to live in 50 people tribes, of course there are going to be conflicts.

Take curiosity and caution for example. In the early days, when you didn't know which berries were poisonous and which ones were good to eat, you still had to try if your state of hunger was in a dire situation. Your brother who was slightly more curious, could have tried a unknown berry and either be rewarded (protein) or killed (poison). Humans therefore have a natural trait of being curious to some degree.

Take faith in authoritative figures for example. Expanding the wild berries example above, it would also be a nice trait to have if you had a tendency to listen to your parents or elders in obtaining knowledge as to which berries were good and which berries were poisonous without having to try them out yourself. As a rule of thumb, it would be a good genetic trait to develop a tendency to listen to the majority of things taught by an authoriatie figure, which is also why I think child indoctrination to any religion is a form of child abuse.

So what I'm saying is, we humans have a list of preset emotions that determine our actions and our morals. We come programmed with a tendency to act in socially beneficial ways. A bit more in detail though, we also come with the ability to adapt our thinking patterns a lot depending on how we were brought up, we're slightly more complex than insects that all hatch, eat, mate, and die. Simply put, we are a slightly more complex computer program than an insect. And because we're more complex, indoctrination and brain-washing can happen in many different ways other than religion.

I think the key to answering the first post is understanding where emotions come from and how our psychology has been molded by evolution to adapt and develop in certain ways.

[Qlidnaque]

and speaking of Christian psychopaths, stories like this aren't too uncommon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPnM...eature=related

[PetitAvril]

If I was stuck on a deserted island, why would I kill the only other human keeping me company?

[MaleficVTwin]

PetitAvril wrote

If I was stuck on a deserted island, why would I kill the only other human keeping me company?

Why, your complete lack of morals, of course.

[Victus]

PetitAvril wrote

If I was stuck on a deserted island, why would I kill the only other human keeping me company?

Entertainment, food, fish bait?

I mean, and I say this as an atheist, why wouldn't you murder a total stranger in cold blood? What else are we to do with our spare time?

[PetitAvril]

MaleficVTwin wrote

Why, your complete lack of morals, of course.

Okay, well that makes sense then.