What's your biggest weakness as an atheist?

[Sternwallow]

Irreligious wrote

Who is completely inured to the temptation to create an imaginary and beneficent friend intended to provide comfort under conditions of extreme duress? I've not yet been put to the test, but I don't rule out the possibility. This entity wouldn't likely be the one created and worshipped by Christians in their theology, however. Nor would this be an act of reason but one born of desperation and, on some level, I think I'd be aware of this self-delusion, even under the circumstances.

Would you be likely to make up an invisible friend who relishes smashing babies? I find the hideous personality of God probably the characteristic that makes Him seem least made-up.

Yet, I suppose, if one made up an invisible friend who could shower you with gold and candy and comfort, but it didn't ever actually do so, you might need to invent reasons why not, like sin and other such obvious crap.

[Irreligious]

Sternwallow wrote

Would you be likely to make up an invisible friend who relishes smashing babies? I find the hideous personality of God probably the characteristic that makes Him seem least made-up.

Yet, I suppose, if one made up an invisible friend who could shower you with gold and candy and comfort, but it didn't ever actually do so, you might need to invent reasons why not, like sin and other such obvious crap.

Yes. That's implied in my post, and categorically stated that this imaginary and beneficent friend would bear little, if any, resemblance to the entity found in the Christian Bible. I'm basing this on a phenomenon I've seen many times with friends facing terminal illness. I've also had a couple of friends who were stubbornly atheist to the end. I admire the latter, but I don't judge either. The question is, which one am I? One day, I'll see.

Edited to add:Sometimes I don't read too good, Sternwallow, as I totally misread the last paragraph of your above post. You're saying the problematical part of creating a beneficent god is that the believer would be hard-pressed to explain the lack of actual beneficence demonstrated by this imaginary deity. You're absolutely right, if we were we dealing with someone invested in examing those contradictions, but the desperate, by definition, seldom are.

snap crafter wrote

Course, I know a friend who was converted that way from agnosticism. Even started 'courting' the woman. Poor thing. She didn't really love him, she just wanted to convert him. Now she has to keep up the act. I can't believe either of them is truthful (of course, she might find him attractive, he's cut like a greek statue). I'm sure it won't last and he'll fall back to his agnostic ways when he comes to light about how retarded the views are.

I don't know. I know someone that is atheist that now refuses to say he doesn't beleive in God because of his wife. For years I thought he would finally come clean, but its been a long time now. I myself have come very close to taking up Christianity out of lust/love. If I had gone all the way in...all the way to marraige, I don't know what I would have done. I creates a horrible situation. Lie to your children or give up your marraige.

As to my greatest weakness, it would have to be a desire for meaning. I want to beleive that I have a destiny...a purpose. I love fortune cookies and magic 8 balls and fortune tellers.

The fantasy of fate is my weakness.

I think my weakness is the thought of being dead. I mean it wouldn't be that bad because I'm fairly certain it'll be like sleeping forever without dreaming; just oblivion. But I'll be sad that I'll never see anyone again after we die. I also want to see how the future turns out after I'm gone. Oh well.

I've also heard this argument that all the evil in the world somehow actually contributes to a greater good. I think it was called the unfinished world or universe argument; when humans "finish" the world themselves and fix all the problems, it's supposed to be this great thing that makes all the horrible things worth it. But really, god doesn't exist and all this evil is just there because people feel like being evil. That's sad. It would be nice to be able to blame god.

Also, I'd like to think that all the people suffering in the world will go on to a life of eternal bliss, but they don't. They just have a miserable existence and then they die. This might also cause people to not help each other or strive for anything better because they think god will sort it all out. You know, opiate of the masses.

Hydrofly wrote

Besides, i consider theists to be lower on the evolutionary ladder than us atheists are. Why would i want to lower myself to the level of an ape when i'm clearly human?

You got it right, totally awesome thought! :bow:

[a different tim]

Fine tuning of physical constants sometimes bothers me.

I generally fall back on anthropic arguments but I'm not 100% totally convinced - they really need to be coupled with a multiverse type scenario or a Lee Smolin type evolutionary argument and I don't like those as they seem untestable.

Trouble is, a deity isn't a good solution either - theists are postulating an even more finely tuned entity to solve the original problem, and are punting off the origin and characteristics of this entity into "unknowable by definition" territory. Plus, invoking a deity is a God of the gaps type argument and is weak on those grounds - "I can't explain this feature of the universe, therefore God exists". So it seems pretty unlikely to me that any form of theism has a solution to this one.

I guess for now it has to be an unknown.

NB This doesn't seem to bother Choobus, who is a physicist, nor does it get used by Quaker to argue for God, so the physicists among us don't seem to take it seriously as an argument. So I'm sure the problem will go away if we have faith in Choobus.....:P

[Irreligious]

HomoCyclist wrote

You got it right, totally awesome thought! :bow:

As far as we know, non-human apes are atheists. They don't ponder their existence nor what happens to them after their natural lives have ceased. The human ape has a need to make sense of its existence, which is why we invent gods, and I use the plural "gods" because, clearly the many, many people who believe in a singular deity are not all worshipping the same thing, not even those who belong to the same religious sect, necessarily. God, then, is a creature of imagination that ostensibly brings order and comfort to many people's lives. If this sounds like an argument in favor of theism, it's not. It's just an awareness of why this phenomenon exists. The problem, of course, is the temptation to take one's internal god and project him or it onto the outside world.

I suppose my weakness might be the thought that we might, one day, lose. By 'we' I mean the human race, and by 'lose' I mean die out. I know that it is possible for the human race to wipe itself out, or to be wiped out by some cosmic catastrophe, but I wish it weren't. The thought of everything I and the rest of humanity have done being for naught bothers me a little.

[Hertzyscowicz]

I'd suppose the closest I've ever come to theism was when I read the apocalypse; It speaks of natural disasters and wars everywhere and look at what's happening now. Then again, compile a ton of vague prophecies together and one of them will be true sooner ar later. And I have yet to soo the world end.

I'm not sure if I have any weaknesses short of The Man himself showing up in front of me which is very unlikely to happen. I'm confident I could even resist the mighty Kirk Cameron's capabilities of conversion :P

I suppose the only conceivable way I could be converted was by repeatedly drugging me or otherwise inflicting brain damage and/or stripping me of my free will.

HomoCyclist wrote

You got it right, totally awesome thought! :bow:

I do that too.

[Choobus]

a different tim wrote

Fine tuning of physical constants sometimes bothers me.

I generally fall back on anthropic arguments but I'm not 100% totally convinced - they really need to be coupled with a multiverse type scenario or a Lee Smolin type evolutionary argument and I don't like those as they seem untestable.

Trouble is, a deity isn't a good solution either - theists are postulating an even more finely tuned entity to solve the original problem, and are punting off the origin and characteristics of this entity into "unknowable by definition" territory. Plus, invoking a deity is a God of the gaps type argument and is weak on those grounds - "I can't explain this feature of the universe, therefore God exists". So it seems pretty unlikely to me that any form of theism has a solution to this one.

I guess for now it has to be an unknown.

NB This doesn't seem to bother Choobus, who is a physicist, nor does it get used by Quaker to argue for God, so the physicists among us don't seem to take it seriously as an argument. So I'm sure the problem will go away if we have faith in Choobus.....:P

I think that this argument displays a lack of imagination in that if the constants were different it is not a trivial matter to predict what the resulting universe would be like, and therefore I think it's a bit much claiming that the present values are the only ones that can support life. How do we know that there aren't oither weird universes populated by 1 dimensional energy beinigs who are really glad that they live in the only possible universe.

It is always wise to have FAITH in Choobus though. And to read the awesome chooblog for divine guidance.

I gues my weakness come with the concept of meaning and purpose.

The simplest answer and one that works for me is that we make the meaning--we provide the purpose. But, even accepting that, that means that the purpose and meaing is as much derived from people like PIMP and Fred Phelps as it is from the best of us.

My problem is that given the way folk seem to behave with each other--given our acknowledged propensity to self service and cruelty--i sometimes feel depressed over what our legacy will be.

I gave up god--because I could not believe--but I really substituted my faith in any religion with the idea that human beings may live long enough to becomes something --i don't know--greater than they are--

The believers don't ahve to worry about it--they have nirvana or hell or fluffy fucking cloud land--they need no purpose becasue they have given over purpose and meaning to their gods--

Athiests? When we do think about meaing --when we hit the existential crisis--we have nowhere to go save what outr reason directs--maybe to becoming something later on--something post human...

Something that could meet with the rest of the universe on more equal footing--something more than where they came from--and I seem people failing and falling and in pain--or causing it--I get a little bit sad about it.

I mean for fuck's sake people are killing each other over sneakers--or which imaginary friend said what when--

[nkb]

I have no weaknesses in my atheism. I always leave it open to new (non-silly) evidence, up to and including the Big Man coming to hang out with me and letting me know I'm a little off in my views. Somehow, I'm not holding my breath, and if he does show up, I am 100% certain he's not going to be anything like the biblical version.

My biggest weakness, when it comes to defending atheism, is that I do not have sufficient knowledge of all the different authorities that theists usually invoke when supporting the bible, so it is hard to refute them on the spot.
It's kind of like coming up with a great comeback to someone after it's too late. Being able to research and then refute people's arguments after the debate is very frustrating.

Well, that is part of the reason I am here. I am still amazed at times at the amount of knowledge that is present here, be it scientific, philosophical, or theistic.
I'm just trying to soak up as much as I can.

snap crafter wrote

My biggest weakness? Women.

Maybe you should work on your approach, dude.

http://ravingatheists.com/soldsoulfo...s-up/#comments

Female theists like to use their appearence to sway you, often trying to 'comfort you' in psuedo-intimate ways. And I'm almost desperate enough to be sucked into such a trap. Converted through 'love'.

Yeah, sucks to be you. Of course I'm lucky because apparently there are more male atheists than female; mostly because girls tend to be ruled by their emotions. I could never be converted with 'love'.

It's kind of strange then that I'm good friends with at least four female non-believers, not including myself, and they're all smokin' hot I might add. And we all met by chance, not at some atheist convention or anything. Maybe atheists are drawn to each other.

Too bad not only are there less female atheists, they're probably also harder to get in the sack.

joni wrote

Maybe you should work on your approach, dude.

http://ravingatheists.com/soldsoulfo...s-up/#comments

You know you love it.