Of Course God Exists

[Andrew66]

hertz vanrental wrote

christards have faith but then, where does faith stop and reason begin?

christards have faith in the stupidity of the babble. It claims, amongst other things, that a ghost raped a woman who had a child and remained a virgin. Believing in this isn't having faith. It is having stupidity.

There are no good philosophical reasons to believe in a higher power. In fact, there is every reason to believe that one does not exist.

The universe looks like it didn't have a creator. If it did, he's a malicious cunt. There's a neutron star pointed right at us. When it goes off, and go off it will, eventually, within micro-seconds, all life on Earth will be toast. What kind of creator does that?

The universe isn't particularly welcoming to Mankind. Most of the universe is space (which is finite you thick twat). If you think otherwise, go into outer space without a space suite and see how long you last. If a creator created the universe, I would have expected him to have created a more welcoming place for us Humans, wouldn't you?

Hell, Earth isn't that welcoming to Mankind either what with hurricanes, Sunamis and volcanic eruptions and the like. In fact, two thirds of the planet which god created for us is covered in water which, without articial means, Man is unable to survive in.

Man definitely looks at though he evolved. Look at the fragility of DNA, for example. One mutation could do no harm, one mutation could produce a being with a biological advantage and a third mutation could give rise to cancer. Do you feel lucky, punk?

Any medically-trained person will confirm that Man isn't particularly well designed. If your god created Man, then your god is a twat of a designer. Next time you pray to the ass hole, tell him that from me.

To be crude, what kind of designer is it that puts a woman's pleasure beach next to the sewage works?

What kind of god is it that gives young children cancer?

There's many other points I could bring up but that will suffice.

There are some mechanisms, largely theoretical, which have been developed that are capable of creating an embryonic universe out of which, the universe that we observe, could have been created.

Indeed, FERMILAB have already observed particle pairs being created out of nothing. It is perfectly possible, not just theoretically so, to create something out of nothing.

Read Krausse or others on this subject.

It may threaten your comfie blankie - but what the hell. You gotta grow up sometime.

I don't expect you to have thought about any of this because you are an ill-educated piss pot with pretensions of mediocrity.

But then, if you don't read about the non-god possibilities, how do you know how likely it is that it was 'your god what dunnit'?

Stop doing the weird shit and get an education, dumb-ass.

So much wrong or poorly thought out its disturbing.

Just one philosophical argument to cause suspician that a Higher Power may and very likely could exist.

If Cosmos infinite, (multiverse infinite) then their are infinite chances for a higher power, infinite chances for evolution including progressive evolution, possibly over infinite time.
If our universe is all there is, it is still miraculous that the physical constants are such that they are that organic life such as ours as evolved at all. That the rest of the universe is uninhabital doesn't change the remarkable coincidence of the physical constants. I've said before the rest of the universe could be placed there for beauty (oh how beautiful) and biblically the stars are used for navigation. The argument that the design of universe is inefficient carries little weight with a Creator having infinite resources at hand.

If you don't understand this argument you are as stupid as your posts imply.

[Egor]

The Judge wrote

Egor I'm going to level with you.
I am a man of science and a medical doctor with a background in psychology and interest in consciousness research. This statement of yours above intrigues me. Please give me more details because on the surface it makes little sense. I'm genuinely interested in your responses.

I think it is pretty evident from reading back through your previous posts that you are as staunch a religionist as I am an atheist and so rather than focussing on the nuts and bolts of what is clearly a cast iron and very personal paradigm, I'd like to hear more about the more peripheral stuff so that we can discuss / debate that first.

I'd happily try my hand at debating you as that is what you desire but there appears to be a lot of esoteric stuff bolstering your very personal religion and so I feel we might stave off hitting a brick wall if we try and come to tackle the "big stuff" in time. I wonder if we might cut our teeth so to speak on the smaller stuff such as these studies into animal consciousness you mention for example because what you then infer from this has potentially profound and far-reaching consequences for other areas we may cover.


It is encouraging that you draw a line here.

This is sounding quite esoteric now. I know you expound a little on some of the attributes of what you call "Substance but can you attempt a fuller definition for us, please? I appreciate this may be difficult.


I admit I'm struggling to see how you resolve the paradox you describe here. Perhaps things might be clearer once I understand a bit more about what you mean by "Substance" though...?


You state that as a self-styled "Veridican" the gospels are prime and all else biblical is ancillary. It seems quite a leap, therefore, to have come up with the notion of "astral planes" based your reading of it.

Thank you though for your detailed description of "hell." I must say that you're the first kind of christian I've come across who wouldn't mind going there when you die. Most intriguing.


How are you so sure? Indeed how would it be possible to know this at all?

I want to answer your last question as soberly as I can, because I know that I get carried away quite easily. But I know these things because I experience them in my mind. I have a way of astral travel, and I know that it could all be fantasy, but I also know what it is like to fantasize and daydream--and my astral travel is not like that.

Now, I could be wrong. But anyone can be wrong when they report what they have experienced and then make a conclusion about it. But I only bring up my experiences like that when I'm asked about them. Otherwise, I'm quite happy to talk about these things in mundane terms. In fact, I expect to, because I know that anyone can claim experiences and that isn't evidence of anything.

So, I am willing to talk about anything you want to talk about. Would you like to talk about God or consciousness? We could discuss/debate either, if you like. I'd be willing to start a new post on either one. Given your background, I must admit, I would like to talk about consciousness and the scientific evidence for dualism I mentioned. When I talk about it, I typically get blank stares. But I think it's because the people I talk to about it don't understand the science. You would.

Tell you what: I'll go ahead and start a post on it, then you can dive in if you feel like it.

[dogpet]

Egor wrote

Plastic Christian? So, what's a real Christian? Someone humble enough to let you have the final word?

Okeh I'll credit you with outlier. It's a slippery slope.

[Egor]

Andrew66 wrote

It seems that hell is kind of like a prison, where the Angels Egor is mentioning are the guards. Maybe when Egor passes into the spiritual realm God will make him into one of those Angels (a guard or sheriff).

Honestly, Andrew, that was pretty much the conclusion I came to after the experience. You really hit that on the head, because even now, I think about it and kind of daydream about being there. And it would fit with my travels in this life and my experiences. And these beings are not torturers, it's not like that. And I don't know if they ever even interact with the souls in the lake. Frankly, I think the lake of fire is a very lost place. But...that said, I shall have to do more astral travel and find out more.

Thanks.

Andrew66 wrote

Egor, do you think Hertz has a demon?

He rambles obsessively, and is very sensitive and inflammatory.

JJ and I have been wondering whether it is a mental illness.. he may need help.

Hertz is also a fool.

I imagine him working at customer service at Hertz Van rental, well dressed and all polite and professional to the customers - but behind his screen he's on the Raving Atheist forum exhibiting his manic destructive thoughts. Kind of funny really.

Honestly, most of his stuff I just pass up and don't read unless I'm bored. He's been here for years and has always been the same. As for demon-possessed, I don't know. I don't think so. I think everything else you have said, though, is probably spot on.

hertz vanrental wrote

I withdrew from the debate for several valid reasons.

No, he didn't. He's been pming me. He has this idea that if he debates me, I will have a heart attack and he doesn't want that on his conscience. It doesn't seem to matter what I say to him, and I'm pretty convinced he is really just trying to avoid debate.

He said flatly "God doesn't exist." I asked him how he knows that, and that's the last I've heard from him on the subject. He doesn't want to admit he was in error or back off to an agnostic position, because then that will prick his narcissistic sense of ego.

By the way, I am not ill. I am the type who will die eventually from heart disease, barring accidents. But hopefully in 30 years. Not tomorrow, and certainly not from words I read on a computer screen.

[Egor]

dogpet wrote

Okeh I'll credit you with outlier. It's a slippery slope.

Outlier. Yes. That would fit.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

So much wrong or poorly thought out its disturbing.

Just one philosophical argument to cause suspician that a Higher Power may and very likely could exist.

If Cosmos infinite, (multiverse infinite) then their are infinite chances for a higher power, infinite chances for evolution including progressive evolution, possibly over infinite time.
If our universe is all there is, it is still miraculous that the physical constants are such that they are that organic life such as ours as evolved at all. That the rest of the universe is uninhabital doesn't change the remarkable coincidence of the physical constants. I've said before the rest of the universe could be placed there for beauty (oh how beautiful) and biblically the stars are used for navigation. The argument that the design of universe is inefficient carries little weight with a Creator having infinite resources at hand.

If you don't understand this argument you are as stupid as your posts imply.

As usual your arguments are as fuckin' useless as you are.

How many more times you fuckin' useless moron, the cosmos is finite. If you think otherwise, how come we know how far the cosmos is across? If it was infinite, we wouldn't. You are a tosser.

Whether there is a universe or multiverse, is irrelevant.

If a supreme being exists, then it would be sufficiently powerful to 'occupy' all muti-verses - not just one. Why would it only occupy one? If it did, which one? Not necessarily ours.

Your argument is like you - shit.

Basically, either a supreme being exists or it doesn't.

Here we go again.

Our universe exists because the physical constants are such that blah, blah.

An argument put forward by stupid fuckin' christards who have heard the words but have no understanding of them.

If the physical constants were not as they are, we wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be talking about it. They are and we are. Twat.

Have infinite numbers of attempts occurred in the past in which stable/unstable universes have evolved? Who knows. It's possible. Maybe this was the only successful occurrence. Maybe this is only one of several past occurrences?

Look, you fucktard, the reason why life developed on Earth is because the raw materials and conditions enabled it to happen. The Moon was a definite help.

Has life developed elsewhere in the cosmos?

Pass.

You fail to address the issues (as usual):

If your creator created this pile of shit you call a cosmos and designed humans the way he did, the twat did a piss poor job.

If he's so powerful, how come he did such a piss-poor job?

How come he fucked up the design of DNA such that it mutates and can give rise to cancer?

As usual, you don't even have the intellect to understand the questions let alone the answers.

Are all christards as fuckin' useless as you or are you just a piss-poor example?

Want to try again to answer these questions or are you just too stupid to understand them?

Also, there seems to be a rumour circulating that I've been on this forum 'for years'. Fact: I joined this forum in June 2017 - approximately 7 months ago. I didn't post until 12 November 2017 - approximately 2 months ago. This is a matter of public record.

SOG can probably verify that I didn't post before this date and that I am not a sock puppet of another poster. This can be verified through my IP address.

Oh, and stop the weird shit

[Smellyoldgit]

Egor wrote

He's been here for years and has always been the same.

Pay attention you tit. His first post was a couple of months ago.

[Smellyoldgit]

Egor wrote

No, I'm just saying you think you're mentally superior to religious people,

Once again, wrong.

You have never had a precognitive dream? Have you never had a lucid dream or out of body experience? Have you never experienced anything paranormal at all? Seriously?

Nope - had a couple of spectacular wet dreams in my teens, but no other screws loose in this git's head!

I wonder if there's a way to block your PMs without blocking you here in the forum. Maybe the mod can advise on that.

Nope, can't stop PMs - go to it Hertz - annoy the shit out of him!

No, they can't debate.

Perhaps 'they' see the futility of interaction with a vain, arrogant, self-centered, ego-heaped, snake oil salesman and choose to laugh from the terraces.

Their ability to argue philosophically ended with, ironically, the scientific discoveries of evolution and the big bang. Both were supposed to be major triumphs for atheism, but upon further reflection they both became arguments for a creator.

Only when you fools introduced a creator comfort blankie when reality became too hard to handle.

Since then, they have mostly just attacked religion

Quite right, and 'they'd' quite happily fuck off if you cunts kept your horseshit out of public life.

They have nothing. They're completely defeated. Which is kind of sad, because I like to debate

Perhaps if you didn't come across as such a complete jerk, more people may feel inclined to engage.

[Andrew66]

Egor wrote

Given your background, I must admit, I would like to talk about consciousness and the scientific evidence for dualism I mentioned. When I talk about it, I typically get blank stares. But I think it's because the people I talk to about it don't understand the science. You would.

Evidence for dualism.

There is a study (I've heard) - probably Judge you would know - which shows that all the cells of the human brain are replaced every 7 years (or maybe it was the entire body, can't remember, but at least included in the brain), yet we retain the very same consciousness.

This favors the notion that our consciousness (or "spirit") is not entirely based upon the matter or substance of our brain, but rather an eminent and resilient activity which mysteriously equates to thought.

[hertz vanrental]

Smellyoldgit wrote

Nope, can't stop PMs - go to it Hertz - annoy the shit out of him!

egor

Here's the thing.

You know why PM's are called PMs?, because they are PRIVATE.

You chose to divulge their contents to all and sundry. So be it.

I didn't send them to annoy. I have far better ways to annoy than that.

You claimed that you were prone to a MI. I respected that. I believed you.

You claimed to travel the astral plane. Anyone who claims that is an ocean going, five star nut job of the first water.

I didn't want to debate with a nut job that could keel over any minute or go over the edge of sanity. I showed compassion. I gave you a debate win in public. Silly old me.

I gave you the win, publically.

My best advice? Should have taken it.

Now, I'm gonna troll you to fuck and back.

If I want to PM you, I'll do that too.

Every time you post, I'm gonna post.

Oh, this astral plane thingy?

Is that like SleazyJet, no?

Can I buy a ticket at the airport?

Can I buy tickets online and, if so, from where?

Do I need to book in advance?

Do I need to pay to use the toilet or do I just piss all over your head?

I'll do that then.

Wanker.

god and proof thereof.

He who asserts provides the proof.

I contend god doesn't exist. It is a response to the christard claim that god exists - NOT an assertion. It is therefore incumbent upon you to provide proof of god.

I look forward to any of you christards providing proof of god - especially you egor.

So, christards, in you own time, off you go.

[hertz vanrental]

Andrew66 wrote

Evidence for dualism.

There is a study (I've heard) - probably Judge you would know - which shows that all the cells of the human brain are replaced every 7 years (or maybe it was the entire body, can't remember, but at least included in the brain), yet we retain the very same consciousness.

This favors the notion that our consciousness (or "spirit") is not entirely based upon the matter or substance of our brain, but rather an eminent and resilient activity which mysteriously equates to thought.

I wouldn't worry about brain cells android. You don't have any to worry about.

Weirdo twat.

[hertz vanrental]

Egor wrote

Honestly, most of his stuff I just pass up and don't read unless I'm bored. He's been here for years and has always been the same.

Hey ee by gum

You useless twat. My first post was two months ago. That is a provable fact - as opposed to your ravings.

I didn't realise that you are so mentally deranged.

Useless twat.

I do hope that you can supply info that is better researched than this.

What a waste of space you are.

You are as useless as that weido twar android.

[hertz vanrental]

Egor wrote

Outlier. Yes. That would fit.

How would you know?

You are insane.

[hertz vanrental]

Egor wrote

Outlier. Yes. That would fit.

Quote:
Courtney
1.0 out of 5 stars Narcissistic person, fake, and just poorly written
December 6, 2017
Format: Paperback
Would give this zero stars if I could. Edward is a narcissist, and it’s been proven on many occasions that he doesn’t actually believe any of the stuff he writes about or charges people money for. Stay away from this guy, and stay away from this book. It’s just another money grab, like the rest of his psychic business.

SOG posted the above.

I thought I'd repost it here.

This the kind of shit you turn out?

What a poor pathetic fool.

You are bat crap crazy.

Wanker.

[The Judge]

Andrew66 wrote

Evidence for dualism.

There is a study (I've heard) - probably Judge you would know - which shows that all the cells of the human brain are replaced every 7 years (or maybe it was the entire body, can't remember, but at least included in the brain), yet we retain the very same consciousness.

It's fine, I'll do the donkey work, you just sit back and relax
The "7 year replacement/regeneration" notion is a myth that's been around for decades.
I do not have the time to source all the evidence that demonstrates this but a cursory trawl the interwebs yielded this short video and this short video, each with a handful of helpful resources cited in their relative info boxes that begin to demonstrate why this is the case.

Of note specifically was that cerebral cortex neurons are never regenerated or replaced but there is evidence of some regenerative processes in the hippocampal region (an area associated with memory processing). At least one of the referenced studies found that up to only one-third of hippocampal cells are subject to regeneration equating to an approximate 1.75% annual turnover in this subset of these hippocampal cells. In short much of your brain does not regenerate at a cellular level and before you go off half-cocked with a hard-on for the hippocampus being the seat of consciousness or some such bollocks; it isn't. Consciousness is a complex, incompletely understood and possibly (?probably) emergent property of the biological substrate of the brain; it cannot be confined to one area.

Andrew66 wrote

This favors the notion that our consciousness (or "spirit") is not entirely based upon the matter or substance of our brain, but rather an eminent and resilient activity which mysteriously equates to thought.

Simply put no it does not. As usual, the bigger picture is a lot more complex and nuanced than the oversimplified dawbing you portray.

You appear to have taken the concept of Cartesian Dualism and squeezed the notion of something you do not understand, but like the sound of (that also turns out to be based on myth) under it and then said "There! See! It supports it; I was right!" When in actual fact you base this on something you only kinda remember reading about one time maybe that turns out to be wrong anyway and that you couldn't even be bothered to look up and fact check.

For all the other stuff that Egor has said that I disagree with (and that is admittedly fairly far out there), I do like and shall invoke his epithet: "To speak without thinking is to shoot without aiming."
If you want to get into this stuff with me try bringing a sniper rifle with a decent scope and a good range-finder next time instead of this quite aptly named yet still figurative blunderbuss approach.