11-28-2011, 05:09 PM
|
#46
|
Obsessed Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,457
|
Hi there. You wrote a lot, and I'm starting to suspect that's how you normally try to win arguments - bombard the person with as much as possible in the hope they get overwhelmed and lose track.
As such, I'm going to try to focus on a small part of it for now, and go some more later.
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
I think the problem is you use the word "aliens" instead of Egypt's gods. Which is whom they talk about. Aliens makes one think of hollywood's green men special effects fantasy characters. Maybe even that thing with the runny mouth in the movie with Ripley.
|
I'm sorry, but that's your problem. Most of us here can talk about this abstract concept you seem to be suggesting (that the egyptian "gods" were from another planet), and even call them aliens, without getting confused with hollywood.
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
Can humans build pyramids? Yes. Can ancient american populations build their structures and temples that we call incas and mayans and whanot? Yes. My problem is on the one hand, ancient egyptians and incas are depicted in the modern eye as simple people who live in the desert or bush, walking around half naked living in grass huts or simple structures.
|
Hold up. You phrase it as though everybody thinks Egyptians were simplistic morons. That is simply not true. Nobody, especially in academia, depicts them like that.
Here are a few examples of their contributions to maths alone, not including their contributions to architecture, art, literature, and more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_mathematics
http://www.ethnomath.org/resources/lumpkin1997.pdf
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
Now I ask you sir, howcome on the one hand, we are to believe that they themselves are such simpletons living in nothing that represents any sense of what can be called architecure, and on the other hand they built these complex structures that took complex mathematics and engineering? Why didn't they build their houses like that too then?
|
Like I said, you're not supposed to believe that. Nobody believes that. They were less advanced than modern society, sure, but they were in no way simpletons.
Why didn't they build their houses in the same way they built their grandiose monuments? Slaves. It took thousands of them.
So most people couldn't live in houses like that. But if you look at the palaces and such of the ones who could, you'll see that is exactly what they did.
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
They themselves stated that they either built it for the gods, or it was built by the gods. Or the pharaos, whom they didn't think were human entirely. So you ask me why I would think there's a possibility that gods built it? Because the ancient cultures' history say so. Not my words. Theirs.
|
They also worshipped their pharoahs like living gods. Does this mean that every pharoah was from another planet? And if so, why is it that with all of their advanced technology, they were over-powered by the Romans? Were the Romans from another planet also? Was it the same planet? If it was, why did they need to take them over in the first place?
What about today? Why is it that they no longer worship their leaders like gods? Did they all die out?
Was it the stargate?
And are you really telling me that "They said it so it must be true" is your approach to determining what is and isn't real? Just how many pills do you normally have to take in a day?
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
If I told you that it's possible for life on a planet to evolve to a point where they have the technology to space travel and leave a new species behind on a different planet through DNA manipulation, how realistic do you think that is?
Well it's obviously reality, AND NOT ALIEN.
|
THAT'S WHAT ALIEN MEANS. Like I said above, you seem to have trouble hearing the word alien and getting away from "hollywood". That's your problem. Other people have the ability to use the word alien and not be talking about movies and films.
Anyway, I know you wrote a lot more but it's a lot of crazy to sift through and I don't have the patience or the time right now.
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 05:31 PM
|
#47
|
Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
|
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 06:52 PM
|
#48
|
Obsessed Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Great Ocean Road
Posts: 2,917
|
Fuck! the agencies finally sent a replacement for Cal, how long did that take?
Once you are dead, you are nothing. Graffito, Pompeii
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 07:35 PM
|
#49
|
I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
|
I see we had a discontinuity in communication, probably my fault. I will try again by just commenting on each of your points, not to convince you to change your mind but to make it plain why I accept or reject your position and to get clarification of your position.
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
Now, I've always seen things when I was little that was normal to me, but I later learned is categorized as "paranormal". Well that was half right, but I don't know about the "para" part.
|
There is a class of imaginary constructs that mimic or misrepresent reality that is called paranormal. No evidence has been offered to me to believe in the existence of a real paranormal realm.
Quote:
Anyway, I always thought oh, what I see must be spiritual things that I will find the manual and documentation for in things of religion, since they speak about angels and afterlives and snakes that speak and all such "paranormal" things in religion.
|
Did the paranormal stuff that you saw consist of angels and afterlives and talking snakes as well?
Quote:
So, as the years progressed, I studied religion. I wanted to know all about it. Big Christian that I was, I found all about my religion so fascinating and goodfeeling, I wanted to know more and more and more about it!
|
No problem here, learning is good as long as facts are involved and not fantasy.
Quote:
However, as most of you know, the more you know about the origins of religion, the more you realize it's all based on ancient scriptures, and as soon as you study the origins and contexts of those scriptures, you may find that originally they said and intended something different but today the church and whatever muslims call "church" and all the religionist structures built up around the abrahamic histories, have legendized it so far astray that they have taken the scriptures and made up something that they base on the scriptures, even though there is no basis in the original scriptures (in their original forms, not the modern corruptions) for what they made up.
|
Because we have no instances of the original texts, only later copies and because major parts of the original languages have been lost, there is no way to view an original nor to accurately translate it, with the best of will. For instance, the problem with the Bible passage about rabbits chewing the cud is because the meaning for the word that was translated as "coney" that we call rabbit, was lost so the translator plugged coney in. For all I know, that ancient word might have meant "water Buffalo" in which case, yes, it does chew the cud. We will never know unless some new Rosetta stone surfaces telling us what that ancient string of letters really meant.
Quote:
At present, the only way to see truth in the history of the abrahamic religions, would be to interprete it the way ancient astronaut theorists do, in other words that a race from the seventh planet (heaven) from here, had developed like us into a space traveling species who like us, leave a mark on the planets they visit. While we leave flags, rovers and photo-taking space ships with no resources to come back in space and on other planets, these people through genetic manipulation and intercourse (the technology and lust we ourselves possess) left ruins, legends of "all knowing, all powerful gods" (themselves) and a half-evolved thinking talking apeman who's "religious" (read coo-koo) in the head, called "man".
|
I expect that there are space-faring non-terrestrial beings and I am eager to see them or the imprint of a visit here by them. The distances involved in interstellar travel makes such visits as you seem to be describing, not impossible, simply very improbable against a simple progression of human development, both physically and socially.
The legends and religions you mention are similarly more probably due to drug use or induced drug use (through deprivation of food, drink, sleep, warmth, coolth etc.) than an awkward attempt of primitives to describe the transcendent.
Quote:
This would make sense on many levels, regarding a cloud of smoke in the day travelling in front of the israelites in the sky, and at night you only see the fire spewing out or something along those lines.
|
Marching toward a volcano has a nicely natural duplicate of these observations.
Quote:
And instead of a snake talking in the garden of eden, originally that record said it's a god whose symbol is a snake. Yes, a god can talk. Not many snakes do though. Also this would explain monotheism as in Babilon, the god Marduk fought for the title of the one and only true god, and as you may know the israelites were taken away to babilon where they must have taken this monotheistic tradition upon themselves, except in the "bible" they started writing here, they were "the chosen nation of God".
|
Talking snakes and donkeys and foxes and bears, indeed any animal, appear naturally in fiction (see Aesop) which, to me is a much easier explanation for the snake in the tree in the Garden.
Quote:
HOWEVER, as you may know, churches and muslim suicidists do not want to believe that such a surprizing yet rational (no comment) explanation such as that gods who came down from the heavens are behind the workings and origins of their religion. They want to just ignore any factual history of their religion coming into being, and still claim like mad rabbits that they actually pray to the creator of the universe. WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE MOST ORIGINAL FORMS OF THEIR SCRIPTURES, THE BASIS OF THEIR BELIEFS, WERE TELLING ABOUT. It would appear that a handful of those records were stringed together, the clear names of the original character gods scratched out and replaced with the vague term "God" in order to misform it into a one god only misquoted history, and presented as "THE Word Of GOD", all believe it or be killed or burn in flames!! Which of course it isn't and never was.
|
We know that religion is not for the masses (NPI); it is for the clergy. It is clear therefore that clergy, in perfectly ordinary competition with other clergy for whatever their region uses as parishioners, must continually boost their particular focus of faith, taker of tithes, and resider in their Synagog, Church or Mosque. There does not have to be a primary phenomenon to act as base for the god hypothesis. I think, in the case of human's gods, for each one there was once a powerful hero/bully soldier/king who was subsequently legendiated.
Quote:
In other words, they reject the only way there can be truth to their illogical ideas.
|
They do not care about any mundane truth when they have the key to heaven all locked up and in their pocket.
Quote:
Anyway, reading the olden history of the church and its cruelties, and reading the modern history of them Islams and their suicidal missions to harm themselves and others, you soon realize religion is pure evil in its most undiluted form.
|
I don't believe in evil. Many occurrences in nature are not to my benefit and some of them are downright harmful to me. The natural ones Tsunamis, for instance, are not evil. Harm to me or suffering through human action may be justified or even necessary. The tiny fraction remaining may be attributed to mental states that the person is neither aware of or capable of changing. This is not to say that I wouldn't oppose my being made to suffer, only that it is almost never accurate to call it evil.
Quote:
I do believe that the way to get religion back from its current form of brain rabies, to the context of objective history where it belongs, is to educate people about the origins of their scriptures.
|
I don't think you have substantiated your apparent claim that the original manuscripts were crude descriptions of beings coming to Earth from the sky nor that beings other than humans contributed in any way to human evolution or social or technical development.
Quote:
Yes, I tried talking to a few reverends and found that the most interesting thing is they have never thought about the actual origin of the scriptures they quote from. They want to believe "God" (the word god didn't originally refer to Creator Of The Universe, but they like to think it does) gave us "His Word". Even though the creator of the universe never did come down and give it, and these religious folk even admit that, but they like to keep quiet about the origins of their scriptures because they have this little house of cards that, if one pulls out one of the bottom card, that is the BASIS lie, then everything they built on it will crash down. And of course preachers make their living and money by lying through their teeth, and the truth will mean that they then actually have to go find something that's actually useful and helpful to man to do.
|
I agree that very many if not most clergy are aware that they re selling a noxious kind of fiction. The ones who do have religious experiences and their gullible sheep will sustain religion for far longer than it deserves.
Quote:
Well that's my experience of the religion dilemma. But I shall not give up! I believe in mankind, and that mankind will soon realize it's all talk and they never see what they talk about and those they hear talk about it have never seen the things they talk about either.
|
How do you propose that humans discount or ignore the very real and very powerful mental and emotional events that occur within them?
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 07:43 PM
|
#50
|
I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
|
Quote:
ILiveInReality wrote
I take my conclusions only from what I observe in reality, see. Accent on what I observe. If I observe something and you don't, and I tell you about it, I don't care that you think it "paranormal". It just means you haven't observed it in your reality because you're limited somehow.
|
You are the one who brought "paranormal" into the conversation.
Quote:
Now, I've always seen things when I was little that was normal to me, but I later learned is categorized as "paranormal". Well that was half right, but I don't know about the "para" part.
|
Sorry, Kate, you beat me to this big time!
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 04:09 AM
|
#51
|
Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
|
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
|
|
|
12-01-2011, 06:47 AM
|
#52
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tijuana, BC Mexico
Posts: 209
|
Kate, this thing about "girlies" smells fishy to me. I don´t know, it sounds too much like......."harpies"....a word that a religious cow used to say to us...
|
|
|
12-01-2011, 03:55 PM
|
#53
|
I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
|
Quote:
DyingStrong wrote
Kate, this thing about "girlies" smells fishy to me. I don´t know, it sounds too much like......."harpies"....a word that a religious cow used to say to us...
|
That seems a bit of a stretch to me. I doubt the cow in question would have the tiniest bit of courage to tiptoe back here again. We know her buttons and would destroy her and her overt lies in six or fewer post exchanges.
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
|
|
|
12-01-2011, 03:56 PM
|
#54
|
Mistress Monster Mod'rator Spy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The North Coast
Posts: 15,428
|
I kinda wish she would, actually. What with the re-write of the Nicene Creed and what not by Ratzy and his gang.
giggle
"I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
|
|
|
12-02-2011, 01:56 AM
|
#55
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tijuana, BC Mexico
Posts: 209
|
Quote:
Sternwallow wrote
That seems a bit of a stretch to me. I doubt the cow in question would have the tiniest bit of courage to tiptoe back here again. We know her buttons and would destroy her and her overt lies in six or fewer post exchanges.
|
hahaha, true. I have seen a "Lily" posting comments over the American Thinker blog. And her writing is very closed to the cow in question.
|
|
|
12-02-2011, 02:06 AM
|
#56
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tijuana, BC Mexico
Posts: 209
|
Quote:
Kate wrote
I kinda wish she would, actually. What with the re-write of the Nicene Creed and what not by Ratzy and his gang.
giggle
|
I went to the link and couldn´t help to giggle too. And I cannot believe that there are people who waste their time writing and believing such non-sense.
|
|
|
12-02-2011, 02:48 AM
|
#57
|
Stinkin' Mod
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Britland
Posts: 13,616
|
Giggle? - I pissed myself after a festival of facepalms!
Just think of the cost & associated aggravation for putting out this modest update.
They'll be required to: - Recall & destroy all now incorrect printed literature
- Reprint & distribute new hard copy
horseshit documentation
- Recall & destroy all now incorrect electronic media - tapes, CDs DVDs etc
- Reprint & distribute new electronic documentation
- Update all relevant sections of web hosted
bullshit guidelines & directives
- Retrain all supervisory & management staff in the new
bollocks creed rules
.... after all, we wouldn't want any errors or inconsistency in church directives would we?
Stop the Holy See men!
|
|
|
12-02-2011, 07:26 PM
|
#58
|
I Live Here
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,211
|
Quote:
Sir Smellyoldgit wrote
Giggle? - I pissed myself after a festival of facepalms!
Just think of the cost & associated aggravation for putting out this modest update.
They'll be required to: - Recall & destroy all now incorrect printed literature
- Reprint & distribute new hard copy
horseshit documentation
- Recall & destroy all now incorrect electronic media - tapes, CDs DVDs etc
- Reprint & distribute new electronic documentation
- Update all relevant sections of web hosted
bullshit guidelines & directives
- Retrain all supervisory & management staff in the new
bollocks creed rules
.... after all, we wouldn't want any errors or inconsistency in church directives would we?
|
I think you are going too easy on the Church. If their history is any indicator the list would be very different:
- Confiscate all religious books and commit them to a bonfire because they are all now incorrect
- Reprint & distribute new hard copy
horseshit documentation, but only to the clerics because the lay members are not supposed to read about anything and certainly not to think
- Using the bullshit excuse that the electronic media can have objectionable material, confiscate all electronic media and have another bonfire.
- Reprint & distribute new electronic documentation, but only to the clerics because the lay members are not supposed to read about anything and certainly not to think
- Update all relevant sections of web hosted
bullshit guidelines & directives while locking all of the lay congregation out of it altogether.
- Retrain all supervisory & management staff in the new creed rules
Thus will the Holy Roman Catholic Church grow, prosper and live on down the aeons.
"Those who most loudly proclaim their honesty are least likely to possess it."
"Atheism: rejecting all absurdity." S.H.
"Reality, the God alternative"
|
|
|
12-03-2011, 02:48 AM
|
#59
|
I Live Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9,613
|
yup- for religidiots ignorance is bliss!
“'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." Fry
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 PM.
|